What will the citizens of Oro Valley get if this Naranja Park Bond Issue passes? Well, if this Council approves this at Wed night's meeting, Dec 19, we'll have a park with a Bond Issue that may be for up to 25 years with an interest rate of up to 12% for an amount of $49,100,000.
Forget all the intfrastructure costs, etc----Let's just look at the sports facilities this Council may see fit to approve.
How about:
FOUR BASEBALL FIELDS (FOUR LIGHTED)
FOUR SOFTBALL FIELDS (FOUR LIGHTED)
TWENTY ONE TENNIS/BASKETBALL COURTS (TWENTY LIGHTED)
FOUR SOCCER FIELDS (FOUR LIGHTED)
FOUR VOLLEYBALL COURTS
FOUR TETHERBALL COURTS
ONE SKATE PARK
ONE BMX PARK
Has anyone done an analysis as to why this community needs four each baseball & softball fields, or 21 tennis/basketball courts? Are four tetherball courts necessary? Does anyone play tetherball?
Might this list be just a little too much for a community the size of Oro Valley, especially with a large senior citizen population? I'm sure the folks in Sun City will flock to these fields and courts, especially the BMX park. (We hope OV will have good liability coverage, especially with the BMX Park.
What do you think?
On Wed night the Council will decide what---if anything goes on the ballot for a Nov 2008 election.
16 comments:
Where I lived previously, the town built a skateboard park. The injuries there put the insurance rates through the roof! It became a hangout for thugs selling drugs, and required additional police! All in all, it was dangerous and costly!
Sounds like Ferlin lived in a bad place and had really poor police protection....unlike Oro Valley!
As we have become accustomed to the writer of the original post appears to have little, if any, vision.
The Naranja Park is being designed not only for use by Oro Valley residents but by others in the region. Softball and baseball and soccer fields are difficult to come by now. As the region grows that demand will surely increase. And users of these facilities should pay fees to help reduce the O & M costs.
Now I am not thrilled with the skate or BMX park but we have a responsibility to provide these kinds of services to our youth. By making users sign appropriate waivers and showing proof of individual coverage, insurance liabilities can be managed.
It is difficult to understand why the writer is so concerned over the cost of a bond issue and yet he supports impact fees that amount to well over $70,000 to the average new homeowner. Seems to be some disconnect there.
Anyway, I hope everyone has a great Christmas and holiday season!!!
Who are the 'crazies' who thought this thing out? Simple math will not support this boondoggle. What percentage of persons in this town are sports oriented youth? What percentage will actually use this facility on a regular basis? Will not the weather (temperature) limit the times of potential use?
At those 'lower temperature times' (evenings), shouldn't the students be home dining with their families, doing homework, etc?
As an aside: those who 'hang' out at Nikkos are still going to hang out at Nikkos. But, the drugs will now have an expanded 'marketplace'.
Now, what about me? I am retired and live in an adult community. I have NO use for a town park of this ilk. I am paying for the amenities in my own community as well as the 'extras' provided for the PAD in which I live.
It's for the children you say, our future generations, etc. Well, how many children and generations do I have to continue to pay for. I've paid my dues and for some to want to put more shackles around my neck, well, 'here's to you'.
This town has gone NUTS! It is becoming (has become) over-retailed, financially overburdened, is becoming over-eateried (went to Chilies last Saturday night, prime time, EMPTY!
In short, what we have here is one big EGO trip piled on top of the other EGO trips. IN the long run, stupidity will be it's own punishment!
(P.S. - I have been VERY close to another town's idiocy similar to this one; folks, it ain't gonna work!)
Oh, I forgot something - has anyone been following the decline in the real estate boom with all of it's ramifications? Seems the Council, advisors, et al have blinders on. History shows that recovery from a 'recessive' period like the one we are going through takes MANY years! Do our 'mentors' need to go back to school and get their GED equivalents?
Dear Objective Thinker:
Ferlin did NOT live in a "bad place". He had a lakefront home on the westside of the Capital City of Washington State! As far as the police protection--you are living in a "dream world" if you think OV Police are doing a great job!!
Dear ov objective thinker:
Why should the good people of Oro Valley be taxed to death to provide a regional park for all of the Tucson Metro area? If it is to be a regional park it should be funded by Pima County. How will user fees be decided? how will proof of residency in OV be determined?
You say waivers will be signed. Who is going to check and verify those signatures? Who is going to verify insurance coverage?
Sounds like the usual...Town Council,Town Manager,etc. digging deep into the pockets of OV taxpayers. What happens when the pockets are dry?
OV Objective Thinker says that we have the responsibility to provide these kinds of services to our youth.
Please tell me where that is written or what law mandates this.
Maybe that is where a lot of us disagree . Personally I think it is the parents responsibility to provide
entertainment for the kids not the taxpayers.
A few ball fields, meaning the basic simple playing fields might be fine but I really don't want to have a tax for ball fields.
This was a small town & still is not that big that we need all of this nor can we afford it.
Yes sports and outdoor activities are great for the kids, but it is not the responsibility of the taxpayer in my humble opinion.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
Zev,
To answer your question, according to the Town of Oro Valley Parks and Recreation Department, a total of 1,979 were involved in organized sports in Oro Valley last year. Now, of course, some of the soccer players might also play softball, but let's just assume that these are separate individuals. If we also assume a current Town population of 44,000, that means that only about 4% of us participate in organized sports at town parks.
We're being asked to pay $1,115.91 each (every man, woman, and child in Oro Valley) to fund the hobbies of 4% of our population. The average household size in Oro Valley is 2.39, so our bill is $2,667.02 per household in today's dollars.
If this amount is financed over 25 years at 12% interest, as this bond may allow, each household will pay $8,426.91 over the course of 25 years for the 4% of the population that uses these fields.
OVOT,
According to a recent Explorer article, impact fees for a $258,407 new home in Oro Valley are $27,982. What's interesting is that only $1,412 goes towards parks in Oro Valley. A similarly priced home in Marana contributes $3,028 towards parks; one in Tucson contributes $1,553for parks, and in unincorporated Pima County, there is no impact fee for parks.
It would seem reasonable to double the park impact fee in Oro Valley to be more in line with Marana's, AND to seek a contribution from the County, perhaps through a parks impact fee in unincorporated Pima County, especially if, as you say, this is a regional park.
Oro Valley Mom -
Firstly let me advise you that over the years, organized sports have been incorporated into school programs in most areas throughout the country. Sports fields have been incorporated into school grounds as well. I cannot see where tether ball is a recognized organized sport. In short, you can throw a lot of statistics around but, OV MOM, statistics do lie. Before I moved here a person very close to me was involved in the finance department of one of the country's major cities/counties. Yes, they got their soccer fields, some ball parks, as well as some things I don't want to mention for fear that our Council might expand their wish list. They also incurred huge operating expenses, dwindling usage, outrageous debt, more and more bonds and future taxation, increased policing necessities, drug dealings, fights, etc. Tell me, OV MOM, why should I have to pay for all this -you want ball fields - you pay for them; you want tether ball courts -you pay for them; you want tennis courts - you pay for them; I am 68 years old; I've paid my dues - you want it all, find another way!
OV Mom -
In addition to that which I stated above, I would like to pass on to you my observations as to what is happening to the FAMILY UNIT as we knew it. As I was growing up, my family always ate dinners together, spent weekends together (yes we did have activities), we ate healthy home-cooked meals, we attended churches/synagogues together and so forth, and, yes, music and sports were a part of our lives, too. This participation continued through the raising of our children.
It appears today that grocery markets are loaded with frozen dinners, quick meals ,etc. It is obvious that dinner time is no longer family time. It appears that families no longer offer enough of basic upbringing by taking responsibility
for same within the home.
Children today are sloughed off to 'extracirricular' activities by their PARENTS - a kind of babysitting 'cause the parents simply do not want to be bothered.
It's time parents stop sloughing responsibility for childrens' upbringings onto the schools, government institutions, playgrounds, and so forth. Society is slipping into a kind of 'me, me, me' hell. Is that what you want - 'cause that's what you are getting. And, you want me to pay for it?
Education? Do the kids know history, the Constitution, the foundations of our country, etc.
Can they think by creation of ideas rather than simply reciting
'facts' by rote? Parents espouse lots of sports - but not a lot of acedemics. And this sports complex fiasco is a prime example.
Re-do your thinking, OV MOM; not only are your stats skewed, but there is little passion in your heart for the tradition of the home and the 'family' of society. You seem to only want 'things' for your kids (and yourselves) and upi seemingly ignore those other 'life enhancements' which are so necessary for a well rounded community.
Just one more thing - there are lots of Seniors living in this community; how come the Town Site has NO provision for them - perhaps a Senior center? No, there's nothing for us - yet we must pay.
OV MOM, I do not think of you as a 'not-so-nice' person; your heart may be in the right place; but, I do think you are very misguided and need to expand the scope of your thinking.
Zev, I think you misunderstood.
I was trying to show that the town was asking people for a lot of money to support the hobbies of only 4% of the population.
I don't want a property tax to pay for the ball fields, tennis courts, skate parks, and dog parks.
User fees, fine; property tax, no.
Zev Cywan,
Your recent posts are a bit troubling. With all due respect you're coming across as one of those bitter senior citizens harping on the current generation in power.
I find it interesting you claim parents today delegate their parenting duties to others and do not spend quality time with their children. TIME Magazine recently had an article revealing that parents today spend more time with their children than parents in the '50s, '60s, or the '70s. Fathers alone are FAR MORE involved in their children's lives as compared to fathers of the 1950s who showed up at the dinner table and that was it. You lack any basis for you statements.
Further, the fact that you've turned a town wanting to build a public park into a negative commentary on society today is beyond me. Get some fresh air! Enjoy today's youth who will be leading America tomorrow! Children are articulate and involved, and show tremendous promise for America's future. They deserve a park--although it IS questionable whether a park of this magnitude is necessary.
It is disheartening to hear senior citizens be so negative about today's society. The generations before today grew up in a largely intolerant America where people were shamed into "social norms" and unwilling to accept change. Today's children are able to be themselves and adapt to change--important qualities in an increasingly global market place.
One last thing: you are NEVER done paying your dues to society. We are a community, and as such, you have a responsibility to funding the schools (including bonds) even though your children are no longer in the system. As a member of the community it is in your best interest to help ensure children have adequate recreational opportunities. If paying dues isn't your priority, I suggest moving to rural Montana or Alaska where you can exist alone and not be bothered by these children.
Happy Holidays to All!
To OV MOM,
I am sorry, I did misread your intent within your commentary. I let mine stand but without being directed at you.
To 'CACTUS'
I am not a 'bitter senior citizen' as you profess that I might be. In short I am merely stating that this 'site' is over the top and non-inclusive of much of the town's citizenry. Sorry about my read on a lot of 'famlies' today; I lived in an upscale beautiful subdivision in North Raleigh, North Carolina. Most residents were CEOs, Doctors, Dentists, researchers, etc. Lots of kids, lots of drugs, lots of sex, lots of vandalism, etc., etc., etc. Try to talk to the kids, you got nowhere; try to talk to the parents; you got nowhere. Are there a lot of good kids - yes - but for me to have to fund their
extracirricular activities should not be one of my OBLIGATIONS. I could easily turn this around and ask why don't YOU fund a senior center, why don't YOU fund senior
activities, why don't YOU fund bocce ball courts and so on.
Sorry, Cactus, I don't believe in the collective "It Takes a Village".
Also, I personally experienced the wild, pie in the sky, excesses of Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina. I saw the abuses, I saw the increases in debt, I saw the fiscal irresponsibilities, I saw the HUGE increases in school expenditures with little results, I saw bond after bond after bond try to get shoved down the peoples' throats; I saw parks, museums, etc. built for the children with little attendance and huge expenses. And they continue one boondoggle after the other.
Cactus, when this town comes down to earth, when it stops giving away the pot, and when it reconsiders what a town site park might be for ALL of it's citizens, then, I might be interested.'Till then, I have no use for it!
I am a senior citizen. I love kids. Kids need to burn off energy. That being said; why did OV decide to take money in lieu of parks,fields and open space in housing developments?
I don't think OV needs the vast amount of fields,etc. that the Park & Rec dept. and the Mayor and Terry seem to want. I've been to our parks: days, nights and weekends. Very limited use.
Why not start small. Two soccer and two baseball fields. Monitor their use and see what needs there are?
Do the people of OV want a regional park that will be open to all of the Greater Tuscon Metro (east,west,north and south)?? Catalina didn't when Pima Cty came calling. They left their park as passive rec. That's why many of them come here as does Marana.
Has anyone asked the neighbors in the Naranja park area if they want the foot and car traffic,noise and lights that a regional park will bring???
Just heard today about a report from Tucson that we ALREADY HAVE more park space per person than Tucson, and it was a report done by Tucson--not Oro Valley (so maybe it is accurate).
We have gorgeous high school and middle school campuses with sports facilities, folks!
Went to the Council Meeting last night, and it is so pathetic to see how some of the members have become "attack dogs" against anybody who crosses them.
Terry Parrish stares at the ceiling when someone opposes him. He attacks those who make statements he doesn't like. Then he informed us that the discretionary fund has doubled to over 12 mil since he has been in office. So then why the new utility tax? Why the new wastewater fees? Why the proposed bond for a park that will require more taxes, more police protection, and more insurance, when we don't need it?
The bottom line is why do these council members promote our future indebtedness while they give away great "gifts" to developers?
Post a Comment