The Explorer reports that The Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce held a meeting this past Thursday at the Hilton El Conquistador Resort.
Basically, what came out of the meeting were the following people telling the Oro Valley Council how they could best spend the Oro Valley Taxpayer's money.
Here are the "players."
1) Dick Johnson--Former Council Member and now a member of the chamber, best known for "pushing" giveaways "down the throats" of Oro Valley, including Vestar's $23.2 million.
2) David Walsh-- Former OV Economics Development Administrator and now a VP at TREO who continues to tell the council what is best for them & us.
3) Lynn Ericksen--General Manager Hilton Resort, the ONLY hotel in Oro Valley that continues to accept a "kickback" of 2% in Oro Valley Bed Tax revenue.
4) Greg Forszt-- NPCCC Chairman and former PLANTIFF ON BEHALF OF VESTAR IN A LAWSUIT AGAINST ORO VALLEY.
In all due respect, I don't think the Oro Valley Town Council needs to take financial advice, or any advise from this group.
Here's The Explorer article.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/05/13/news/doc4a09f9339ceb1785678618.txt
18 comments:
It's nice that the Explorer gave all this ink to the self-appointed Chamber committee and what they want, but gave hardly any to the citizen-elected, Council-appointed Council subcommittee and how they came up with their recommendations. In fact, they never even mention who was on the subcommittee or bothered to interview them. Hmmm.
Isn't it wonderful that the 'old guard' who helped 'blow' the peace and beauty that was Oro Valley (yes, at least some of that peace and beauty still exists and seemingly can't be destroyed), continue to tell US how WE should be developing our town and to whom we should be beholden. Johnson, Walsh, Ericksen, Forzst, Parish, Dankwerth, et al - GO HOME! It's another place in time; you all had your shot, took it for whatever it was worth (profit motives and quid pro quos), and now the time and opportunity for a 'new beginning' is here. Stop crying about what you would do, stop with your old self-interests and your good 'ol boy mentalities, and, if you have any kehones left, get with the new kids on the block, yes the ones who can think out of the old destructive boxes you seem to remain in.
The Town has a very difficult job; not only do they have to come up with new solutions to new problems but they must come up with solutions to the old problems you ALL helped to create. You are welcome to help find new solutions but don't tell us what to do with your stale ideology!
I don't want some of these people near the towns money.
Some mentioned here have little sense , evidenced by their support of the 23.2 million giveaway or gifting to Vestar.
Also what does the town of OV get for all this money?
Seems like not much.
Good idea for the connections between some of these groups and people who want to run for office in OV be known soon so we can connect the dots!
Here' the thing: I don't see anything wrong with citizens getting together to talk about community interests. Just because they have once held office or because they're in positions of leadership in other organizations doesn't mean that they've given up their rights as citizens.
This doesn't mean that we have to agree with them. But, this thread seems to imply that they should just go away. That would be dangerous, because some day the tables may be turned and writers on this blog might be encouraged to just go away.
So, in the interest of democracy, I say "more power to them." If they can come up with good ideas that are acceptable to the public or to the public's elected representatives, that's OK. If they can't, then at least they've exercised their right to do so.
I sincerely hope that we've moved past the point where we're saying, in effect, "you're entitled to your own opinion, as long as it's mine."
B-b, if you read my post carefully, in essence there stands an invitation to JOIN but NOT to dictate. I have been to a few meetings where some of these participants have attended individually and have had very decent interaction with them. And, I do not disagree with your assessment relative to their community involvement. I do have problems with some of the SUPERIORITY ATTITUDES that they have towards our current Town
Council and Staff.
I believe that boobie-baby has a valid point. Citzens should talk about what they think will make Oro Valley a better place. Perhaps not everyone will agree with their ideas, but they should be allowed to meet and discuss. Whether or not you like it the fact remains that David Welsh, Lynn Ericksen and Gregg Forzst are Oro Valley citizens and have jobs that require them to be interested in Oro Valley politics.
James, have you been following this site for very long? Yes, b-b may have a good point but have you seen some of the 'blasts' she has thrown out at others for exercising the same freedoms she now, for THIS 'group', advocates? Unfortunately, much of the time she doesn't follow her 'own' principle as stated in her last sentence. But, this stream is not about b-b and I will simply state that no one is trying to keep the above mentioned individuals from expressing or offering their opinions; and, I will listen as long as their sometimes arrogance is muted.
I don't have any problem with citizens having input. In fact, I very much disagree with Helen Dankwerth and Terry Parish and all the others who thought that 2,000 or 400 or however many citizens shouldn't be thought of as having valid, representative input. So much less so, then, for this small handful of people, I guess.
My problem is that we don't have any source of news to report on how our elected officials came to their decisions, what their thoughts were, and so forth. All we hear about from this local rag is what the Chamber wants.
Oh, and by "local rag" I meant the Exlplorer, not the blog. :-)
The members of the NPCCC committee who made the recommendation are LOCAL business people who volunteered their time and business expertise (an attribute totally absent from the resume of all of the current Council) to closely examine the proposed Town budget and make a recommendation to the Town management and Council on how to grow the income to the Town. They did not mandate, dictate or any of the other loose descriptions used by some of the posters to this subject.
But once again, the blog master (in his typical 'when you have nothing intelligent to say, make something up' mode), Zev, Ms Coyote, and Mom all choose to attack people rather than make an assessment of the recommendations and offer an opinion as to its validity or offer an alternative.
IF ANY OF THE 4 AFOREMENTIONED POSTERS WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE INITIATIVE TO ATTEND THE PUBLIC MEETING (attended by nearly 100 people) AT THE HILTON THEY MIGHT HAVE LEARNED HOW TREO AND MTCVB CONTRIBUTE HEAVILY TO THE INCOME STREAM OF ORO VALLEY. But then, I know that would have been too much trouble.
OV Mom,
Ms Latas and Mr. Garner were part of the subcommittee and all they had to do was ask a "local rag" representative to attend their meeting or submit a press release afterward describing their actions and recommendatrions. Instead,they choose to keep this meeting 'small' and as a result few people attended. I did (for some of the meeting). Did you, Mom? Did you Zev? Did you Ms. Coyote? Did you Art? Again you may have learned something but you made a decision to just 'sit at home' and then post negative comments.
How's this for an idea to save Oro Valley money?
Have the Council pass a motion to stop ALL donations to TREO, GOVAC, MTCVB & NPCCC for starters.
At the same time, ask the Hilton Resort to void the contract giving them the 2% Bed Tax kickback.
If these volunteers really want to help, they would all go along with this suggestion.
Also, let's not forget the money Mr. Forszt cost Oro Valley in his lawsuit against the town, acting as a stooge for Vestar.
And if Cox knows so much, why doesn't he tell us all the things we gotten for the hundreds of thousands of dollars we have given these four entities in the last few years.
OVOT,
The question is not whether or not I attended the subcommittee meeting or the Chamber meeting. I am not asking the Town for a handout, nor am I a paid journalist whose job it is to report the news. The question is, why didn't the paid journalists whose job it is to report the news attend the subcommittee meeting or at least pick up the phone and do a little bit of journalism by seeking information from the people who are actually making the decisions? Why didn't they interview other organizations who were recommended for funding? Is it because they really aren't journalists at all, but just mouthpieces for their advertisers?
OVOT, I did not attack anyone! I did attack a group 'effort' that I opine feels that they are still a 'group' force and whose motives I question and yes Idid suggest that, based on other observances, that some of these persons 'go home'; I did not advocate shutting them out. For you to assess that this 'group' has more 'on the ball' than the current council is, in my estimation, a questionable proclamation in itself. Yes, I did not attend the meeting as I was either out of town or was not informed of it or BOTH! So much for transparency. Read my posts, OVOT, and, please, try to grasp them as to what I say, ACTUALLY.
We all know that the local media is strapped, and that original reporting is a disappearing enterprise. When a local paper only has one reporter to cover the entire Northwest, it's understandable that this person cannot be everywhere at once. So, to place the blame on the media for not reporting about the meeting shows a lack of understanding about how local newspapers work.
Since the Hilton and Ventana Medical are major employers in OV, I would expect them (or their representatives) to weigh in on community topics. Do they "deserve" to be listened to more than others? Well, theoretically, no. But, practically, yes.
A talented politician once said that anything could be accomplished if everyone didn't care who got the credit. I agree--the Vistoso Town Center development is a great example of that (before the housing market tanked).
The problem comes when we disagree with those who appear to carry some extra "weight" in the decision-making process. When we disagree with them, we then dismiss them as not worthy of making recommendations. This, of course, is wrong.
I'll take good ideas any day, and I don't care if they come from major employers or from the gardener down the block. Or even from participants in this blog who frequently (but not always) offer criticism but few solutions.
b-b, while you put forth a good case for your 'observations' it leaves open good cause for questioning some of your conclusions. That the local media is strapped and therefor 'selective' in what it may or may not publish is a testament to the weakness of their position in the community. Frankly, in my estimation this paper lacks definition and thus a character we can put our fingers upon.
The problem I have with businesses such as the Hilton, Ventana, et al, is that powerful entities have a tendency to exercise power not always in the best interest of a societal whole.
In my opinion, there has been a bleak history of too much power wresting away the voices and the wills of the common man; and I have seen that happen right here in Oro Valley. Our Town has NOT been exempt from the evils perpetrated by such power, corporate or otherwise.
And yes, If we could embrace the 'eco' system instead of the ego system, we could all, as a community, lead a more fruitful and satisfying existence. Hassle takes up a lot of energy.
I do not disagree with someone who might carry some weight just because that person has 'some', but, I might object to that same person if same tries to 'throw it around'. Unfortunately, that's what many 'power people' do.
I do not deny the right of achievement; I will deny that this makes anyone philosophically special or sensible.
Good post, b-b.
I was not here when the below action took place. Is there a short history of this lawsuit someone could post. Thanks;
Greg Forszt-- NPCCC Chairman and former PLANTIFF ON BEHALF OF VESTAR IN A LAWSUIT AGAINST ORO VALLEY
Nombre "W"--- I'll try and give you (and others that may be interested) a brief synopsis.
In 2004, the OV Council saw fit to hand out 3 "giveaways," otherwise known as Economic Development Agreements. The most egregious was $23.2 million to Vestar.
A small group of citizens filed a referendum in an attempt to override the council's decision on Vestar, allowing the citizens a vote on this issue.
There were a number of lawsuits. The citizens group known as SOVOG---Stop Oro Valley Outrageous Giveaways prevailed in the court decisions.
The final court decision was a determination that OV forward the petitions on to Pima County for verification.
To undermine that decision, Vestar saw fit to sue Pima County claiming they should not have accepted the petitions from OV.
The one catch was that Vestar needed a "stooge" who was an Oro Valley resident to act as the plaintiff. Voila! Greg Forszt fit that position to a tee. He stepped up and became the plaintiff.
Oh yeah. SOVOG won and the people got to vote. Sadly, Vestar spent tons of money and convinced enough voters that their Marketplace was worthy of receiving OUR $23.2 million in sales tax.
That my friend, is how we ended up with WalMart and their Chinese imports, and the ugly roof, and a place for RVs to park overnight.
So--- anyone that tells me Forszt is someone to listen to, doesn't know what they're talking about.
And,let's not forget Dick Johnson who as a council member did as much damage to Oro Valley's financial condition as anyone.
I hope that answers your question.
Got it thanks.
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