Two articles in the May 14 Az Star discuss the issue of Oro Valley's budget crunch and our need to donate funds to outside organizations.
We have discussed this issue in prior postings, but we thought our bloggers may want to opine. So, here's the question.
If you had to decide what to do with a potential ----let's say $200,000---what would you do?
Appreciating there are other worthy groups asking for lesser amounts of money, we are only asking if you could give any amount, up to $200K total to the following four entities----or give nothing at all, what would you do?
1) GOVAC (Greater Oro Valley Arts Council)
2) MTCVB (Metropolitan Tucson Convention and Visitors Bureau)
3) TREO (Tucson Regional Economic Opportunities Inc)
4) C-Path (Critical Path Institute)
Here are the Star's two articles
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/292574
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/85737/292571
13 comments:
Art,
The link to the first article is broken, but I was able to cut and paste the address into my browser and it worked.
Brava to Ms. Medrano for the second article, though. It at least qualifies as an attempt at reporting more of the story.
It's hard to believe that four council members want to give $25,000 of our tax dollars to an outside organization so that the other organization can hire an intern, while the Town is in a hiring freeze and even considering laying off employees because they don't have the money to pay them.
I would much rather see our tax dollars being spent to maintain our streets, parks, library, and police cars instead of these handouts to industry groups. If Kunisch, Loomis, Carter, and Abbott want to donate to this organization, I have to agree with Bill Garner, "Knock yourself out." But please, use our tax dollars on the Town's services, not industry groups with big promises.
Thanks OV Mom--- Link to first Explorer article now works. Also thanks for your input.
Art
I am not an expert on either TREO or MTCVB but I do know that the activities of both organizations contribute mightly to the revenue stream of Oro Valley.
I'll start with TREO. They are the only independent third party organization actively marketing Innovation Park, the economic engine of OV's future. OV will need high paying jobs from which tax revenue is gleaned. It can't all be done with retail and tourists.
As an organization TREO has spent over $3 Million dollars annually marketing The Old Pueblo to corporations, both nationally and internationally. We benefit from that effort and should help support it.
In 36 months TREO has been responsible for 32 projects which contributed 5000 jobs to the metro area, adding $1 billion into the local economy. That translates into hundreds of indirect and induced jobs in OV and hundreds of thousands, in indirect and induced spending in OV.
As for MTCVB, according to the Hilton Conquistador alone, in the last year they have been the recipient of over 15000 room night stays as a direct result of the marketing efforts of the Bureau. Not only do we receive the bed taxes from those room nights, but we also benefit GREATLY from the money that the occupants of these 15000+ room night rentals spend locally. The return on the Town's investment is huge.
There are many community supported organizations that need the support of the Town of Oro Valley. However we should not lose sight of those organizations that provide a RETURN ON OUR INVESTMENT (ROI). They deserve special consideration.
Times are tough. But times for the entire metro area would be much tougher if we didn't have the income that is generated by both of these organizations.
The economy of Oro Valley needs to grow financially to support the demand for services and the increasing cost of those services. Today you cannot keep pace by simply cutting the services budget. The people of Oro Valley have repeatedly stated that they will not tolerate deep service cuts (police, roadway maintenance, etc). Therefore you must look at increasing the income side of the equation.
Sure, TREO is good for "the metropolitan area," but we are NOT the metro are. We are Oro Valley.
How many of those 32 projects and 5000 jobs ended up in Oro Valley that can specifically be attributed to TREO?
As for MTCVB, it seems that Ventana Canyon, La Paloma & Star Pass get a lot more of the "MTCVB business than the Hilton El Conquistador.
And let's not forget the fact when visitors stay at any other Oro Valley accommodation, the town gets the total bed tax revenue ---not kicking back 2%.
And let's also not forget, Oro Valley does not have a multitude of fine restaurants. You can be sure that many people who stay at the Hilton spend all their dining dollars in Tucson.
Yeah! We get a return on our investment but might the hundreds of thousands of dollars we gave these organizations given us a better ROI if utilized elsewhere?
That's the bottom line question!
Art,
I appreciate the dialog void of personal comments. Now we can have an informative discussion of an issue.
Oro Valley IS a big part of the 'metro area' just as unincorporated Pima County is the metro area, as is Marana, etc. I cannot answer your question of specific jobs in Oro Valley however I will ask TREO for that info and post it on this or a later related thread. What I do know is that even when a local job is created by TREO's marketing efforts it benefits the entire area. Let me give you an example.
Jobs may be created in Tucson, Marana or the unincorporated area. The job holder and their family may choose to LIVE in Oro Valley. Statistics show that families spend 82% of their pre tax income. 29+% is spent in the community where they live. In addition if they do choose to live in Oro Valley then we realize state shared revenues that are based on our population.
Something that we also often overlook is that jobs create jobs. Jobs created in Tucson for example, generate other jobs in the service sector to support the 100 families. The statistics I am quoting come from AZ Department of Revenue Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Pima Association of Governments and an indepth study out of Minnesota titled Minnesota IMPLAN. So job creation in the metro area benefits ALL of the metro area.
As for MTCVB, it is also their job to generate room nights for those other properties you mentioned. The City of Tucson and Pima County also pay a far greater percentage or their bed tax to MTCVB. So if you simply look at the dollars invested they should get more. But whether they get more nights should not be OUR question. OUR question is do we get a proportionate share of the room nights for what we contribute. The answer is, in my opinion, an overwhelming yes. And while there is not data available to support this statement, I believe those who stay in the Hilton and other local hotels spend the bulk of their money locally. It's just human nature to spend close to where you stay.
And when you do look at the bottom line, as you so appropriately point out, we come out far ahead in money returned versus money invested. And in my opinion we need to do our part to insure these two organization are funded sufficiently and proportionately to continue to do their work for Oro Valley. It really is a win-win relationship.
Mr. Cox---
As I noted previously: "Niceness begets niceness." Try it, and see if it works.
As for the issue, once again, as usual, you come down on the side of big business. I, on the other hand, am concerned about the average Oro Valley resident.
That is why you were in the forefront touting and supporting Vestar, while I, as a member of the SOVOG group did what we could to avoid lining Vestar's pockets with our tax dollars.
On this issue, I will reiterate my position. What have we, as a community gotten for the hundreds of thousands of dollars we donated to these two entities?
You may have noticed, although Marana is considering donating their town money to TREO, they still do not do so.
Until someone can PROVE that giving them money is a wise decision, I will question the wisdom of doing so.
By the way, what did Jeff Weir & David Welsh, our last two Economic Development Administrators do during their tenure?
From my standpoint---NOTHING! That is why that position was never filled, saving us money that was foolishly spent.
Perhaps after all the years of giving TREO & TMCVB our cash, it might be time to try a new approach that may give us a better ROI.
As Bill Garner has said on many occasions, "Let's think outside the box."
That's my point!
Hi again Art.
I am between chores.
My support of TREO and MTCVB is not support of "big business" but is support of the Oro Valley taxpaying citizen. Every dollar that we do NOT receive from bed tax, sales tax, state shared revenue from increased population must be realized elsewhere. That "elsewhere" is my wallet and yours and every other Oro Valley resident.
99+% of all of the bed tax and sales tax we receive from those people spending money in Oro Valley comes from a non-resident of Oro Valley. They come visit, they give us their money and they leave. What a great formula. So if you want specific dollar amounts just ask Stacy Lemos for the bed tax figures. Then there are plenty of valid statistics out there that tell us that visitors to hotels generate income for the local community. There is your proof. You may choose not to accept that but then your position is that all of the statistical evidence is invalid.
How much money do you think Phoenix realized from the last Super Bowl just from bed taxes and the sales taxes generated by the attendees? No one can give you an exact figure but statistics will tell you that it was millions. We have our own 'mini-super bowls' every time a convention is held at the Hilton. And it's the MTCVB that's out there marketing all of our hotels including the Hilton.
"Thinking outside the box" is a great catch line often used when no other alternative is apparent. And it should be a course of action when the current activity is not producing the desired results. However thinking within the box is not a bad action when there are positive results.
Well, at least the dialogue here has returned to being civil. We can be thankful for that.
OVOT is correct when he indicates that TREO's work in attracting businesses to the greater Tucson area does have a direct impact on Oro Valley. In fact, I'd argue that having the business outside the town but having the senior managers living here is actually a better scenario. If we had, for example, 3 more Ventana Medical-type establishments here, they would create more infrastructure needs and more traffic into Oro Valley.
I'd much prefer to have the senior managers living here. The Mayor himself drove to Raytheon every day, but chose to live in Oro Valley.
I rising tide really does raise all ships in this case.
The MTCVB is a slightly different animal. But, as Oro Valley has added at least two more business class hotels (with more on the horizon), the Bureau is particularly helpful in landing the kind of small to mid-size conventions and conferences that add to the Town's bottom line through bed and sales taxes. That's an ROI that can be measured.
The contributions to these two entities aren't enough to pay for one fully equipped police officer, so I fear that we're arguing about pennies on the dollar. The larger issues--like the decision to forego the building of the Municipal Operations Center--have a much deeper impact on the budget.
Financial times are tough, I think we need to begin our investment in the future!
I agree with TREO and MTCVB being funded at reduced amounts as proposed by Salette and Bill after committee meetings with them.
I would prefer to see C-PATH funded over GOVAC.
The ROI benefits all Oro Valley residents. Many of the employees who work in the businesses TREO and C-PATH attracted live, shop and dine here. I think C-PATH will improve our chances of more bio-tech locating in or near OV.
MTCVB helps attract visitors-business and pleasure-these visitors also contribute to the OV coffers.
MarketPlace: I didn't like the deal made by the Johnson-Rochman Town Council in 2004. There is a CHANCE we can make a little lemonade from the 23M lemon.
The clock started ticking on the tax rebates when the first store opened. With the downturn of the economy Vestar will be lucky to get half of the 23M before their clock runs out.
OV has a huge riparian area restored, a walking path and bathroom facilities for the walkers and bikers across the street from the path. Thanks to a bad economy, OV may see a few benefits after all.
The $1 a month rental for a police substation-NOT A RENT A COP FOR THE OV MarketPlace Security-gives OVPD a facility to process and LOCK UP DUI's! That makes OV safer. MADD should be pleased. I am.
There is always hope!
Lamb Chop????
I don't suppose you're the sock puppet of Shari Lewis from PBS----are you?
In any case, thanks for your comment. You make a few good points.
Although, I introduced the OV Marketplace into this conversation, that's not the issue here. However, I will say, the "buck a month" you noted, is actually a "buck a year."
But it will still cost upward of a quarter million dollars to get the "shell" up and running, plus quite a few more bucks in annual costs.
I'm still not sold on the advantages we get from the "big bucks" we keep giving TREO & TMCVB.
I stand corrected-$1 per year. That saves we taxpayers eleven bucks-have to start somewhere!
OVOT: Yes, I do agree TREO and MTCVB do bring business to Oro Valley. The problem we face is the national economy. Fewer tax dollars are being collected and for that reason our funding must be reduced in a manner that corresponds to that reduction.
Everyone has to share the pain and it IS painful spending OV dollars on outside agencies when the monies are needed here.
Thinking in AND out of the box is a good thing.
Artmath:
Have you tried The Harvest? Hacienda Del Sol is by the same group. Finer dining is getting better in OV. We can hope they attract more like them and fewer chain eateries.
I agree that the TOV should participate in the funding of TREO and the MTCVB as we do directly benefit from their efforts. However, as ALL 'recipients' need to contribute to our reduction of expenses, we do need to lower the amounts given.
As to GOVAC, I have made my feelings be well known in previous commentary. Having 'lived' in the 'arts world' for over 65 years, in many stages and within many venues, in my 'with knowledge' opinion, GOVAC is a pseudo 'artsy fartsy' organization that does little for either the realities of Oro Valley or the image of it!
And now to the Critical Path Institute: While I am still gathering information relative to certain performances and 'ties' that this organization is involved within, I tend to lean HEAVILY against utilizing our Town funds to support it. This organization is GENEROUSLY funded by a variety of entities, including Ventana Medical Systems, the Federal Government, various 'special interest' agencies and pharmaceutical companies to the tune of millions and millions and more millions of dollars. So, WHY do they ask for a relative piddly amount of money ($25,000) from Oro Valley which itself needs every penny it can get? Councilmember Kunisch was quoted as saying [he didn't know what they did but...]. To answer that I will dig a bit deeper and most probably will find out IF this organization is truly independent as they claim or perhaps a type of unintended(?) lobbyists for drug/medical companies. One of my brothers-in-law is a noted research biochemist who has been with the FDA and the NIH for around 40 years, has spoken at C-Path events and most recently was a guest research 'presenter' at a Toxicology meeting at El Conquistador right here in OV. In the only discussion we had when he was out here and, without elaboration, he made the comment that the FDA was [becoming more and more difficult to operate within because of the politicism that was permeating the system]. It was my own conclusion that perhaps the drug lobby was pressuring the government and/or the FDA in some manner. Is C-Path tied to or a part of the drug lobby - that I don't know. Supposedly they were created to be in 'joint venture' with the FDA in order to speed up the interrelated research-to-market time element, but, in itself, 'secular' idealism does sometimes break down into biased 'representation'.
The crux of my opposition to giving money to them however is that MANY so-called non-profits have HIGHLY paid executives and other 'workers' the 'eat up' a large portion of the donated money whereas we are led to believe that said money goes to research, development, sponsorship etc. and/or that this could be or could evolve into being, in part, a facility for drug companies and other medical supply companies to assist in 'fast-tracking' their products.
An aside: I think I read that this group would or could bring jobs to Oro Valley. I do not see how they can assist in this as they appear to be simply intermediaries based out of Tucson but not beholden to this area. And, just because they might help in fast-tracking drugs, this does not ensure more jobs for anyone including our current bio-tech firms nor would they establish themselves as a 'draw'.
RE: Critical Path Inst.
While I stand behind much of my opinion as stated in my prior post, I have since spoken with my brother-in-law, noted toxicologist and FDA research scientist, who stated that he is also on one of the boards involved in C-Path. As I perceive it from conversation with him, C-Path was created as a joint enterprise with the FDA in order to coordinate the various research entities and thus assist in meshing the results of the independent factions i.e. private drug companies, universities, along with the FDA et al. My brother-in-law is not involved in nor is he aware of the financial aspects of this group. He did comment that virtually all money was 'tight' within the research community, as it is similarly within other of life's avenues. Having bluntly asked as to why C-Path would come to a Town like Oro Valley and ask for dollars he simply could not answer that question.
Knowing my brother-in-law as I do, an unassuming, low keyed individual,I am comforted by his inference that this group is serving a good purpose; however, for many of the reasons I have stated in my prior post, I still question that Oro Valley should give money to them as requested; C-Path is, in itself and in part, a creation by and of a federal government program.
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