We previously noted the OV Council action as it pertains to the Municipal Operations Center being put on hold and plans to go ahead with a police substation at the OV Marketplace. (See May 6 post Marketplace Substation Approved--MOC Delayed
As it concerns the police substation, Council Member Al Kunisch is reported as saying: "I think this is a win-win for the town."
We would say; "It's a win-win situation," but the winners are Vestar & the police department.
Let's not forget VESTAR IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED. Sure, they're giving OV a "shell" of a building for a buck a year, but there are plenty of strings attached.
For one, Vestar dictates how soon OV takes occupancy. Additionally, the cost to outfit the "shell" is approximately $264,000. That excludes annual operating costs estimated to be $17,000 by Chief Danny Sharp.
Vestar snookered the citizens of Oro Valley once with that $23.2 million giveaway. Let's not get snookered again!
One more thing. The police presently rent two facilities at a cost of almost $80,000/year. One is on Rancho Vistoso Blvd. just far enough away from that Marketplace!
Read The Explorer article here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/05/13/news/doc4a09fcad522f4030402709.txt
30 comments:
Is the police substation on Rancho Vistoso Blvd. really a police substation? Passing this property at least twice daily, I never see any 'real' police cars parked there; only the older, 'pretty' ones are to be seen AND the only persons I ever see driving these older 'pretty' vehicles are elderly volunteer patrol persons who have no power to do anything other than making a presence by joyriding. Oh, yes, once I pulled over to review a rezoning notification sign placed in a relatively unviewable spot on the 'neighborhood 5' property and one of those 'pretty' volunteer police cars pulled up behind me, probably in an attempt to 'scare' me away from where I was temporarily 'parked'(I WAS off the road but in a bicycle lane as there was no other way to view the sign). In short, for what good is this substation on Rancho Vistoso? From what I have observed, certainly it is not a criminal or traffic enforcement center. Oh, and one other thing - usually there is an EMS vehicle parked there too; big whoop, there's a major fire station situated virtually across the street where the rest of the emergency vehicles are situated.
Since the OVM substation seems already to be a done deal, I say ditch the useless, costly
'office' on Rancho Vistoso and save the Town THAT worthless expense.AND, while I'm at it, isn't it time the Town sold off these 'stale dated' vehicles?
How about some answers TOV? Has the dilemma of the OVPD costs and modes of operation truly been COMPLETELY dissected, analyzed, and deemed to be in 'proper perspective' absolutely?
It is my understanding that the RV substation is used as a base for the volunteer patrol as well as the Community resource office. In speeking with one of the Oro Valley PD volunteers I learned this.
Zev. I highly doubt that the volunteers parked behind you to scare you away. They are out there to help and were probably just checking to make sure everything was ok.
For all they could have known, an elderly person pulled over because they had some medical issue which prevented them from driving safely which also could have required some kind of emergency care.
I don't see any problem with the volunteer patrol checking on vehicles parked on the road.
As far as the new substation at the market place..I dont think the town should be taking on the extra expense right now. Maybe a few years in the future it would be feasible. With the current budget issues that the town is facing, I think they town should look at saving some town jobs and forget about the substation.
ezak - it was obvious when this volunteer patrol pulled up that I was reading the sign. It was also clear that I was not having a medical problem. There were other things too that should have made it clear that there was absolutely NO need for them to pull up behind me! Now, I live in Sun City and am a member of and have ridden with the 'Posse', a community volunteer group that patrols the Sun City neighborhood during what would be considered peak property crime times 8pm-2pm. I do not see the volunteers from the substation riding around during THESE peak crime times, I only see them during the DAYTIME riding around from here to there. I don't wish to put this group down in any way, ezak, but please, tell me the scope of their accomplishments. Now, there has been a lot of hullabaloo about the numbers of paid professionals on the OVPD as of late. According to relative stats we in OV have an overabundance. So,why do we need a volunteer program? Why do we need an expensive substation for a volunteer program? Why do we need the 'pretty' retired police cars for this program; that eats up gas and maintenance dollars, too?
As to your last statement, ezak, I agree with it to a certain extent but, at the same time, if you want to save a couple of REAL jobs, IF they are truly needed, then let's get rid of the expenses of keeping a volunteer substation for volunteers who can't enforce, volunteer 'retired' police cars that simply roam around and cost a bundle to operate, and office expenses that accrue along with all of the other 'junk' fees (mortgage terminology).
All I am saying is EVERYTHING has to be viewed in balance!
VOLUNTEERISM IS A GOOD THING BUT IF THE PROGRAM COSTS MORE THAN THE BENEFITS DERIVED THEREFROM OR IT OVERLAPS THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF PAID PROFESSIONALS THEN IT IS SIMPLY A BOWL OF UNNECESSARY FLUFF.
Right on, ZEV! TOV is in a "budget Crisis" (bureaucratese for spending beyond means). Spending even one dollar for another substation is profligate waste. I'm new here; how was the RV substation originally justified? This is a residential community not a high crime inner city spot. Is the RV substation still justified? Does the volunteer patrol need a separate facility? Does OV need the volunteer patrol? This whole deal smells a lot like a budget boondoggle.
So why did OVPD start a volunteer program?
Why did they get a R.V. station?
It's easy to say dump this and dump that but there must have been a valid reason for it in the first place.
Lets just kick all the police out, cancel the volunteer program and make the department totally reactive. The town can save cost of fuel by only driving somewhere when they are called, like the fire dept. The police can hang out at the station until called upon for any type of emergency. For non emergency calls, people can file a report online and send in pictures. Only the violent crimes will get a police response, and because the police will be hanging out at the station, they will most likely not capture the suspect so the town will not have to worry about paying for the suspects stay in jail.
This should save the town some money.
lbc - evidently you don't have the capacity to even understand all of this. No one here advocated or advocates depleting the OVPD to a point of ineptitude. Your post is about as silly as I've witnessed here - it is so off the wall it is not even worthy of argument!
waterdog, welcome! You 'get it' but you probably will not get viable answers to your questions. In this day and age, governments and their sub-departments love complexity; it makes for good hiding.
ezak, you asked a question - get the answers and we'll all love you for it. Relative to your post, I guess if the Town gives something to someone then there MUST be a valid reason - right? What a laugh!
Zev....from the first post to your last your comments are ignorant of fact, self-serving and insulting to the great volunteer group that serve this town well.
Welcome back Objective Thinker. The last time we heard such arrogance it came from "Deacon."
Need I say more???
OVOT, your statement is nothing but empty b.s.!
OVOT, in addition:
How come a 'fact man' paradoxically makes such an emotional puff?
Thinker,
Zev summarized all of his previous comments when he said that EVERYTHING has to be viewed in balance and that volunteerism IS a good thing, but NOT if it costs more than the benefits derived therefrom.
Then, somehow, you twisted that into, Zev's comments "are ignorant of fact, self-serving and insulting to the great volunteer group that serve this town well."
It sounds as if you believe that things should NOT be viewed in balance and that a cost/benefit ratio is unimportant.
Will those ideas be part of your platform when you run for council again? :)
VC.....
"the only persons I ever see driving these older 'pretty' vehicles are elderly volunteer patrol persons who have no power to do anything other than making a presence by joyriding." THIS IS AN INSULTING COMMENT DIRECTED THE VOLUNTEERS. It simply is unnecessary and in fact incorrect.
"volunteer police cars pulled up behind me, probably in an attempt to 'scare' me away from where I was temporarily 'parked'(I WAS off the road but in a bicycle lane as there was no other way to view the sign).
I doubt there were "cars" pulling up behind him. He admittedly was blocking the roadway which produced a hazard to other vehicles which is probably why the volunteers chose to park behind him...for his safety and the safety of others. And he could have found a place to park and walked to the sign.
But once again he chooses the low road and insults people before making any attempt to address the issues at hand. He is getting almost as bad as Art.
You went on to say, "It sounds as if you believe that things should NOT be viewed in balance and that a cost/benefit ratio is unimportant." I don't find anything in my statement that would lead you to the conclusion you attempt to draw.
Let's be honest, Art, you, Zev and others view few things "in balance". :-)
Objective Thinker says, "let's be honest." That's almost as much an oxymoron as his choice (this week) of a pseudonym.
Art....You never fail to meet the low expectations that we have come to know and love and expect from you.
Would you like to come clean and make an accusation???
No accusations from me. Instead, here's a question for our readers.
What do "OV Objective Thinker," "Farley Vaughn," "Deacon" and Don Cox have in common?
Our long time readers may have the advantage here.
Art...Your accusations/references/parinoid thinking patterns are more shallow that your thought processes for Oro Valley.
Allow me to clear the air long before you hear or don't hear from the other two individuals.
I use two names on this site. I sign everythign with OVOT. Every now and then I use my given name in my text which is Don.
LOVE!!
Don....ooooppppsss! I used my real name. Now everyone will know who I am. Drats!!!!!
While you are at it Art, why don't you share with everyone on the blog the individual e-mail I sent to you yesterday. If I had their e-mail addresses I would send it to them also.
LOVE.
Don
Ooopps. I did it again.
Cox--- It's bad enough I (and others) have to put up with your arrogant nasty comments on the blog.
I do not read your emails to me They are considered spam and end up in the trash bin along with the other trash I receive.
Now Art.
I guess the responses I get from most of my e-mails to you comes from the 'other Art Segal'.
You are a jewel!!
:-)
Cox---You live in a fantasy world. In your world, you probably believe you can elected to the OV Council. Dream on!
Thinker (NOT!) - you sure know how to take a statement, isolate it, and make commentary based on out of context material (even though you might be quoting a partial inclusion verbatim). If you can't answer a legitimate question (yes, that what it was all about) then I doubt you can understand it. Your analysis was smudged with a nothingness that was pure pandering.
By the way, why put a sign up if one can't pull over and read it. You weren't there and I was; I was not blocking traffic and there were no bicycles in sight. Why don't you stop getting your nose out of joint and address the situation and STOP THE GUESSING GAME, MR.FACT MAN.
Outline how the volunteer program profits the community in such manner as to justify it's retention and I will listen (it's funny how no one will or can step up to the plate and answer this 'question') - and, please, no more slobber!
jesus de christo!
this thread has outlived its title.
i wish we could stage a duel.
Zev....
They are your words and the context was very understandable from the statements themselves and the quotes I selected from your post.
I have learned enough about the volunteer program to know it is a valuable tool and a tremendous support function for our police department and our citizens provided by ladies and gentlemen who volunteer their services for no pay. I learned that by doing some research on my own, asking questions of those involved and listening to the many comments of residents who have been served by these "elderly" people who are out there "joyriding".
So rather than have me spoonfeed you, I suggest that you take some time away from your computer, get out there and do some research on your own and draw your own conclusions. At least then it will be based on some effort on your part and not some isolated incident that irritated you because you were creating a traffic hazard. And hopefully you will have a greater appreciation for information you gather.
Ok, OVOT, so you can't tell me the EXTENT of what they do because I don't think you know. Again, you assume that because I had an 'experience' with them that I am [sour] because of it. NOT TRUE! I've asked for a cost/benefit analysis and y'all evade that request. Living in Sun City, I can understand that there are certain persons who will kiss the ground for anything 'labeled' OVPD and I know the reasons why. However, there are as many here who think that there IS too much of a policing OVERLAP and that this sub-station is not needed. We have a PD which is supposed to be responsible for the safety of the community - we don't need to expend extra money on extras.
OVOT, you slough off opinions and think that your assessments are valid just because you think them to be. You are also getting a bit too slap happy as of late and I don't, as you should know, don't take crap - from you or anyone else. Disagree with me, yes, but don't foul mouth my person or what I have to say. AND, twisting everything out of content and intent won't be to your benefit; so, all I can say to you in summation is, SETTLE DOWN!
Zev...It is not my job to tell you every duty accomplished by the volunteers. And you are right to state that I don't know all that they do. But I do know that provide valuable services to the community. It you want to know every duty, stop blocking traffic and do to Town Hall, park off of the road and read the same notices.
And here is a bonus....you can do it in air conditioned comfort.
It is also not "y'all"'s job to provide you with a cost benefit analysis. It's your job. If you really look at your request you will understand that it is nonsensical. What is the dollar cost and dollar benefit of a volunteer car pulling up behind a vehicle that is blocking traffic to protect not only that vehicle but others approaching it? What is the dollar benefit of a volunteer patrol car (manned by "elderly" out "joyriding")finding a stolen car in the Rooney Ranch parking lot? What is the dollar benefit of a volunteer car providing a Dark House check on a residence? All are immeasurable. Does that mean they are not valuable.
"Settle Down". I think not, as long as you continue to make foundationless, insulting comments about good people in Oro Valley who serve their community.
Cox--- From your last sentence, I take it that you feel it's OK for YOU to make "insulting comments about good people in Oro Valley who serve their community."
Or, perhaps you believe those who serve on the Town Council, don't count. You know what I'm talking about.
Isn't that being just a little hypocritical?
Art...Refresh my memory?
OVOT, say what you will, your last commentary, repetitive and muddled garble, rings as hollow as the head it comes out of.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Art....
Your lack of a response to my most recent post would indicate your inability to do so. In any case it's just one more of your comments that evidently is all chat and no foundation.
LOVE!!
Zev...
Get over yourself. You appear to have experienced some kind of epiphany that causes you to think that you are the only one allowed to express an opinion. You must be buying and consuming too much of the 'Segal grape juice'. Next thing you know you will be looking forward to the next pass of the Hale-Bopp comet. All Aboard!!!!!
:-)
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