As reported in the July 30 Explorer, Oro Valley Town Manager will meet with the Executive Director of the Tucson Art Museum on July 31. The discussion will include the potential of the museum relocating from downtown Tucson to Oro Valley.
How great would that be? Although the article notes there are six potential sites in Oro Valley, the Town Manager did not want to identify any of them.
How about the best available location? Does anyone else believe that we have a super site readily available that can definitely accommodate the museum.
Our choice would be the NARANJA PARK site. Sure, it would require some modifications, and some additional infrastructure work, but we're sure these issues could readily be overcome.
What a great addition the museum would be for our community.
We wish David success in his meeting, and hope he can "bring home the bacon."
Read the Explorer article here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2008/07/30/news/doc488f976b248f1754561585.txt
28 comments:
I agree that the Naranja site would be a great place to locate the museum. But first you need the park in which to locate the museum. Surely you don't think they would locate on the property without VERY extensive restructuring.
This is just one more reason for you (pl) to rethink your position on the park. Once built it will be a magnet for other venues that will benefit our community.
Now THAT would be a more than acceptable amenity for OV and the Naranja Site would be a perfect place for it.
Sounds like a winner! One thing I question is how ball fields surrounding a museum would work.
Could the museum be situated near the Western Parks area bldg on the Vistoso Loop or that vicinity.
Dave Andrews said there are six potential sites for a museum here in OV.
Would have been interesting if he named the site's.
Now just think if former council members had the ability to think out of the "cement" head block and had
really planned for a nice mall.
Picture the museum here and then a restaurant row .
Also interesting if the article mentions the fund raising aspect of having the museum moved here.
Hello park adovocate people, take note.
Ms.C.......
There is more than enough space in the Naranja Park to place the museum well away from the ball fields.
As more positive venues locate to the park it will be much easier to raise the grant and corporate money you suggest. I think I covered that in my last paragraph of my orignal post.
Let me add another suggestion: Steam Pump Ranch.
As originally envisioned, the Ranch would preserve not only the existing buildings (and restore the ones that are in disrepair) but would also serve as a kind of cultural center for the community. The existing adobe house might be a good place for much of the western and Native American art that the TMA holds.
In one venue along busy Oracle Road, we could locate the Chamber of Commerce (which serves as the Town's relocation and welcome center), GOVAC, the OV Historial Society, and the Tucson Museum of Art. There has also been talk about donations of other collections of items, but those discussions were not ready to be made public (but they were suitable for the site).
So, rather than having to go back and re-configure the Naranja Town Site, now is the time to get in on the ground floor of planning for Steam Pump Ranch, with the commercial Steam Pump Village and convenient hotel next door.
What do you bloggers think?
Excellent ideas, Boobie-baby.
Sorry to have to partially disagree, boobie, I would have expected that a kind of 'purity' would be 'frozen', that the reason for preserving and restoring steam pump ranch was for HISTORICAL PURPOSES and emphasizing it's PAST based on that. On the other hand, as I have stated, I believe that the Naranja Town 'Park' plans are 'dated' and
there is a tremendous amount of opposition to all of the sports anchoring; an arts museum would certainly fulfill the diversity aspect and perhaps would breathe new life and acceptance in said project. As to a couple of other uses you have suggested be attached to Steam Pump, a welcoming center and historical society, I think those are excellent applications.
Not to add a sour note, but I hope for the sake of the community that OV secures this museum and does not lose it to the likes of Marana...once again.
Marana has been able to land an upscale mall developed by Westcor (the owner of La Encantada), and most notably, snag the Ritz Carlton Resort from OV.
The Ritz owned land in Stone Canyon, and because OV did not do whatever it takes to entince the Ritz to build, Marana was able to lure the Ritz to Dove Mountain. The Ritz does not come knocking often, and when it does, a town must do anything to cement the deal.
The town best not let this museum opportunity slip through its hands. If it does, we need to seriously consider electing more proactive town officials and ensure the town hires agents with better negotiating skills. This is becoming ridiculous.
Sorry, Dan, but the facts don't support your version of the Ritz story. The company was ready to build when 9/11 hit. All of their construction plans were put on hold while the entire hospitality industry went into a tailspin.
You are right in that Marana was able to give the go-ahead to Dove Mountain in the interim--which included a golf course (never part of the OV Ritz plans). Since Cottonwood Properties had long planned resort uses for its land near Dove Mountain, the Ritz was a good fit when the industry turned around.
Could the TMA find a home in Marana? It's possible, particularly if the board of the TMA doesn't want to go the route of the interminable meetings and nitpicking that occur at the Development Review Board, Planning and Zoning Commission and Town Council meetings. But we asked for those nits to be picked by approving codes that require such extensive review and approval. If you were the TMA, to which Town would you more likely submit your plans--Marana (where it appears that almost anything goes) or OV?
Dan,
What did Oro Valley fail to do in order to get the Ritz. What did Marana do that got them the Ritz?
I don't recall Marana offering EDA's or incentives to either Westcor or the Ritz.
Correct me if I am wrong about this.
I do recall that we were told that the Ritz was not building in OV because of economic conditions after 9/ll. I don't think that was true.
I think that the Ritz looked around at what was going on in OV, Vestar, Wal Mart, etc and Dove Mt. looked more attractive. Of course just my little opinion..
Boobie-Baby,
Let me assure you, Cottonwood Properties was able to lure the Ritz out of OV and to Marana largely because of the golf course issue. OV refused to allow the Ritz to build a course in Stone Canyon. So when the economy was on the upswing, Cottonwood promised the Ritz several courses if it moved to Dove Mountain.
My previous and correct point was that OV failed to secure the Ritz, even though the Ritz already owned land in OV. Ask yourself this: Why would the Ritz sell its OV property and move to Marana if it was only waiting on the economy to improve? This does not makes much sense. Cottonwood/Marana was able to promise the Ritz what it wanted.
My criticism of OV is that OV did not work to retain the Ritz. When a Ritz comes knocking, a smart town offers the Ritz whatever it wants. OV didn't and lost a once in a lifetime opportunity. Not to mention, OV had already paid a substantial amount in placing water rentention facilities underground specifically for the Ritz in Stone Canyon. All for not.
To support my claims, I am privy to "inside information" from some of the parties I have previously mentioned.
Now, in my OPINION, I believe the Hilton (owner of El Conquistador) did not want to compete with the likes of the Ritz in OV, and has OV officials in the palm of its hand. This is largely why OV was UNWILLING to negotiate and meet the needs of the Ritz. Now, the Hilton remains the only big golf game in OV. Mission accomplished.
And to Ms. C, to my knowledge Marana did not offer any incentives nor EDA's. Amazing. OV offers $23.2 million and gets Vestar and Wal-Mart. Marana lets the free market reign and gets another Westcor project. Interesting...
The Ritz was approved and still coming to OV as of 2004. My understanding is that the Ritz wanted to have access to Stone Canyon golf course for its visitors and were told no and that's what soured the deal. Kind of hard to build a luxury resort in Arizona without golf.
Also, regarding the museum going in at Steam Pump - the master plan for the site was already approved and probably would not accomodate a 5 acre museum. Since the Town will be pursuing national historical designation, it has to be careful about protecting the core buildings on the site.
Dan-
It looks like we have different versions of the same information. Whether it was the Town or Stone Canyon that vetoed the golf course.
Cyclone,
I agree. With the amount of info swirling around re: the Ritz, its understandable how versions differ. I ultimately blame the town, but in my prior post, while mentioning the Hilton, Stone Canyon should also be included. I believe the evidence suggests that the EXISTING golf interests in OV made the Ritz coming to OV a very undesirable endeavor for the Ritz. It's unfortunate the Town allowed that to happen.
Dan suggests that the Hilton has OV officials in the palm of its hand. Hard to argue with that when you realize that first the Ritz was run out of town and then the town coughs up almost a half million dollars to protect the Hilton...ummm, I mean the town, from a lawsuit.
Makes you wonder just whom the Hilton is paying off for all of these "favors."
Yup...still cynical.
And as an aside, The Ritz in OV was being developed by one of Marriot's Arizona subsidiaries, Vestar-Athens Tucson, LLC. HMMMM - kind of sqashes the theory that OV Marketplace ruined the Ritz.
Dan-
While I can understand your point of view and why you lay the blame at the feet of the TOwn, if Stone Canyon said the Ritz couldn't use their golf course, what was the TOwn supposed to do about? This is assuming that the version I heard is accurate, of course, which may not be the case. Just food for thought.
The golf course issue had to do with access to reclaimed water and the fact that the Town did not/does not want any more golf courses that use groundwater.
So, where does Dove Mountain golf course get its water?
Back to the original thread: Cyclone 1--You're correct about a generalized master plan for Steam Pump Ranch. However, I could envision an art museum encircling the existing adobe house, similar to the way in which the current TMA uses the adobe houses next door for Native Art and related exhibitions. In this way, the house becomes part of the museum but also retains its historical character.
Probably a pipe dream.....
Is Stone Canyon owned by Vistoso Partners or one of their companies?
Then blame vistoso partners.
Vistoso partners was at one time
controlling the town. Just my opinion and from what I have read and heard that opinion is shared by many.
Also recall the town spending a lot of money on a type of water deal that was supposedly paid for to facilitate the Ritz.
So why would the town then turn around and not help bring the Ritz to OV.
Does not make sense to me
My gut tells there is a story about this that ain't pretty!!
This gets more interesting, well at least to me.
So the town did not want any more golf courses that use ground water, well mighty nice of them to be concerned about our water : )
Adios Arroyo Grande
Wish the town council at the time had been a little more concerned when they brokered the EDA with Vestar.
Oh Joy, we get a Wal-Mart.
Marana gets the Ritz.
So far looks like all of us agree that the Tucson Art Museum would be a big plus for OV
Hi Everybody--- What started as a post on the potential of the Museum of Art hopefully coming to OV has turned to the issue of Marana getting the Ritz resort while OV came up empty.
So, allow me to continue.
Other than the $850-$900K we spent on the water retention system we put in for the Ritz, as Dan noted, let's not forget one other "small" detail.
In their never ending wisdom the council at the time saw fit to give the Ritz a 2% "kick-back" on the bed tax revenue. No Ritz--no bed tax.
However, those "fools" saw fit to give the same 2% to the El Conquistador. To date, that dumb decision has cost us a few million dollars and will continue at the rate of about $350/yr until 2010.
Thank goodness for the majority of our new council with so much more common sense!
Art....So are you happy or unhappy that the Ritz didn't come to Oro Valley? I can't tell from your post.
Thanks for Mr. Cox who pointed out I left the "K" off the dollar amount we give the El Con resort. It's not $350/year but $350K or $350,000.
$350 might have been more appropriate.
Art
mscoyote, Stone Canyon appears to be owned by none other than one of or several of the Wolfswinkel family which has been labeled as the 'underground' owner of Vistoso Partners. Cottonwood properties also had/has ties to Rancho Vistoso; they were the company that has 'sold' several parcels of property in Rancho Vistoso. The 'ties that bind' go on and on and on. The best thing that could happen to this area is that Rancho Vistoso gets developed out and then perhaps Vistoso Properties can get the hell out of our lives.
"Stone Canyon appears to be owned by none other than one of or several of the Wolfswinkel family which has been labeled as the 'underground' owner of Vistoso Partners"
In the above post you forgot to place the word criminal in the same paragraph as Wolfswinkel.
Pls don't let this happen again
From what I recall Wolfswinkel owes millions in back taxes. I would imagine that is why the companies he owned are now :officially" owned by his children.
I also recall some connection with Wolfswinkel and Vestar.
I agree with Zev, the sooner the Wolfswinkel's and Vistoso Partners are gone the better.
As I noted in an earlier comment, we certainly have strayed from the initial post concerning the Museum of Art---but so be it.
To continue going further astray, here's an excerpt from the Kingman Miner newspaper that we posted on Apil 22,2007. The post was titled:
VESTAR AND WOLFSWINKEL ---A NAME FROM THE PAST
Investor's past
Working with Vestar is Tempe-based company Vanderbilt Farms LLC, which in January closed a deal with local developer Bill Nugent on 200 acres on the north side of where the Kingman Crossing interchange is proposed. The manager and advisor to Vanderbilt, Conley Wolfswinkel, is also the father of the company's owners, Ashton and Brandon Wolfswinkel. The Miner reported Wednesday that Wolfswinkel, a former Phoenix-area real estate tycoon, was convicted of fraud in 1993 for bilking taxpayers in an infamous savings and loan scandal.
Conley Wolfswinkel filed for personal and corporate bankruptcy following the revelation about his involvement with one of Charles H. Keating's companies. Wolfswinkel still owes taxpayers approximately $2 billion from civil lawsuits filed in the early 1990s.
So---yes, Ms Coyote----Your recollection is pretty good.
Financial transparency should be in place in OV.
Annually the town's financial statements and key employees personal financial statements should be subjected to CPA audits and full reviews.
Disclosure statements should be utilized stating any town employee's connection to a company that has been awarded a contract.
I'm sure I'm just stating things that are already in place.
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