The June 4 Explorer reports that Oro Valley is considering cutting back the funding of various organizations, such as GOVAC.
We applaud the decision to review all the "donations' Oro Valley has been making as standard operating procedures for too many years.
We expect this new council will be exhibiting (maybe for the first time in OV history) some fiscal responsibility and not just give away hundreds of thousands of dollars with no accountability.
Read The Explorer article here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2008/06/04/news/doc4846bf0ea8de4541904127.txt
25 comments:
What a shame that the Town is unable to support GOVAC like the original operating agreement called for. The losers are the citizens of the community, particularly the children. Council member Carter, in particular, has shown his disdain for culture, arts, music and recreation. We can only hope that increased sales tax revenue and a possible approval of the Naranja Town Site bond issue will demonstrate to him--and to others--what this community values.
Boobie-baby...
Please keep in mind that the term "Oro Valley being a Cash Cow" is an Art Segal term and should be afforded the same weight as his other personal opinions. There is no substance, no figures to support the claim, just his own empyt rhetoric.
You are absolutely correct that Carter has taken a completely opposite position than his campaign literature where he boldly stated that he "Supports the Arts". Maybe he was referring to Art Carney or Art Linkletter. That might be his story.
GOVAC has done and accomplished far more for the Town and it's residents than the Town has done for GOVAC.
We'll just have to wait and see how the new Council digests the information and moves forward.
I will admit that GOVAC has produced some wonderful entertainment, etc. and I have on occasion volunteered for them.
Unfortunately whomever is managing them financially, needs to be removed. Every year they are in the financial hole and are asking for money. It appears to increase every year by large amounts. Last year they were asking for approximately $100,000.00 and this year approximately $200,000.00.
A friend of mine suggested to a gentleman at GOVAC that they could make money selling water at many functions, but was told the vendors were angry because they GAVE AWAY WATER FREE and one vendor was not able to sell water.
What are they doing giving water away FREE. They obviously think it not necessary to sell it because the TOV will just give them MORE money.
They need to hire someone who is creative in how to make money not acquire money from the Town. It is not right for all of the residents of Oro Valley to pay through their taxes for the few that attend these functions.
I think Mr.Carter is looking at this as a fiscal responsible scenario. I have never seen a comment or heard Mr. Carter mention at the meetings a disdain for culture and the arts. I think it is strictly the Head of GOVAC's inability to be fiscally responsible.
Dancer...
Thank you for your volunteer work for the community. I hope that will continue.
Who should pay for the 4th of July celebration at Riverfront Park?
The General Plan, adopted in 2003 and revised in 2005 and aproved by the voters in Oro Vallst states:
"The Twon shall continue to support the efforts of GOVAC......." I interpret that statement to include financial support.
What I believe is the solution to the issue if for the agreement between TOV and GOVAC needs to be updated, with clear expectations and responsibilities for both parties.
Mr. Carter's solution is to cut off all TOV funding to GOVAC. That action and position could fall into the definition of "disdain".
I stand by my use of the word "disdain." But the bigger picture is not necessarily management at GOVAC. The arts in general are a losing proposition in this country, similar to mass transit. Everyone wants it--just no one wants to pay for it.
Orchestras, art galleries, dance companies, opera organizations--almost all of the them operate with a structural deficit. Without community support through endowments, bequests and fund-raising, ticket sales will never cover the cost of presenting the arts.
The losers in all of this may not be you and me--we bloggers have probably been exposed to significant artistic experiences in our lifetimes. The losers are the children who will not have the experience of listening to a symphony orchestra, having a successful artist in residence at their schools, attending opera performances, etc.
To Council member Carter, asphalt is more important, and no one can disagree that the infrastructure of a community needs constant attention.
But the infrastructure of our childrens' souls also needs attention, and I think it's a civic responsibility to contribute to nourishing those souls. This does not mean that a city or town government should provide 100% funding, but Oro Valley should stand behind its own voter-approved General Plan and support GOVAC during these lean times.
Ahh, for the good old days when the King would commission a composer or artist to create something in his honor!
I appreciate what GOVAC does for the town. I attend their events. However: since they ask for funding from OV why are they holding their summer concert series at La Encantada??? why are they throwing their support to the stores over there? surly there would have been a "venue" within OV that they could have used; closer to home and providing support to the local merchants.JMHO
raindancer
Raindancer,
To answer your question, it's the same one that a famous criminal once gave when asked why he robbed banks: "'Cause that's where the money is."
I'm not aware there's a venue in OV with a similar layout to La Encantada's, one that would provide shade, parking and a pleasant pedestrian atmosphere. One day we'll have one, but not now.
We have very few "local" merchants with the pockets to support GOVAC. Our merchants represent large chains of stores and while some of them are extraordinarily generous, they simply can't compete with the stores at La Encantada (which, admitedly, are also primarily corporate owned).
I guess "Greater Oro Valley" extends to the foothills; the Explorer delivers there, the Desert Leaf delivers in Oro Valley, and the town limits go up into the east end of Suffolk Hills, so you could make an argument that La Encantada is within GOVAC's sphere of influence.
Now, a nice, natural open-air amphitheatre at the Naranja Town Site would certainly be an appropriate venue for GOVAC performances...Let's see if even the infrastructure for that flies in the November election.
In the mean time, be prepared to travel out of town to attend cultural activities, at least for the coming year. What a shame, unless the new Council approves an enhanced grant of funds to GOVAC when the final budget is passed. You can do your part by showing up at those budget meetings and encouraging the Council members to remember the cultural needs of our young people, Council member Carter notwithstanding. And wasn't it Council member Abbott who twice ran on a platform of concern for "kids, schools, education, and recreation"? Is she MIA here? Don't let her get away with it--remind her every time you have the chance.
Boobie baby,
Since you made all of the following comments....
The losers are the citizens of the community, particularly THE CHILDREN.
The losers are THE CHILDREN who will not have the experience of listening to a symphony orchestra, having a successful artist in residence at their schools, attending opera performances, etc.
The infrastructure of OUR CHILDREN'S SOULS also needs attention, and I think it's a civic responsibility to contribute to nourishing those souls.
Encourage the Council members to remember the CULTURAL NEEDS OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.
.....I have to ask, how many children do you have and what are their ages?
This issue seems to be all about the children for you. As a child, I never attended a symphony or the opera and I turned out just fine...good grades, no alcohol or drug problems, no problems with the law, etc. Good parenting produces good children who turn into good adults. I spent my time reading, bike riding, roller skating, etc. My mother paid for my books or I borrowed them from the library, she paid for my bike and my roller skates and my admission to the roller rink. And she managed this while making minimum wage in a factory. She never expected the town to finance my recreational activities.
Parents today all seem to have some sense of entitlement, a sense that the community owes their child everything.
I would like to encourage the council members to remember the FINANCIAL NEEDS OF THE WORKING CLASS people and the retirees who live here. My financial needs supercede your children's cultural needs.
I am in complete agreement with Traveling Dancer who said, "It is not right for all of the residents of Oro Valley to pay through their taxes for the few that attend these functions."
boobie-baby made an interesting comment, "Fund Raisers". Where I came from, the various Organizations, like The Symphony etc, would provide many enjoyable Fundraisers to ensure cultural activities for the children.
They did not go the the Town Hall to ask for money. I thought GOVAC stood for Greater Oro Valley Arts Council, so now like a Kindergartener saying, "If you won't play my way, then I will take my marbles and go play with another". They have chosen La Encantada, which is a bit of a distance for Seniors to drive and even some families, in the evening. This is the type of lovely Venue, we thought we were acquiring, or promised (ho ho) , I can certainly understand why residents of Oro Valley would not want to go the a Wal-Mart mall to listen to music. The lovely River Front Park,which has been providing great music, is a wonderful venue. I am sure that in the near future there will appear some additional nice venues for concerts etc, Perhaps a new Organization, that has the ability to raise money on their own, that will be strictly for Oro Valley and not East Foothills and surrounding areas, will appear.
This town has over 40 thousand residents, so it will come to pass . Also I remember various Organizations became involved in the schools to ensure the children were given the opportunity for culture, music and the arts and much of this was on a volunteer basis. As I remember, GOVAC has a large pool of Volunteers, perhaps they need to expand it.
Victorian Cowgirl,
Unfortunately, your arguments about funding for the arts are as hoary and discredited as the logic behind them.
Have you ever driven your car on Dreamchaser Court in Oro Valley? Neither have I, so why should I pay for the Town to maintain that street?
Have you ever used the bathroom of the opposite gender at Riverfront Park? No--then why should you pay for such an amenity if you never use it?
Did you ever check out a children's book at the Oro Valley Public Library? If not, maybe we should do away with the whole section since you don't use it.
You see, VC, that's the problem. In a word, you reflect one of the biggest challenges that OV faces, namely: "I got mine, and I'm not going to spend a cent helping you." When a community breaks down like that, you end up with a lot of selfish residents who don't give a whit about their neighbors and the neighbors' children.
Why not protest paying taxes to the Amphi School District since, as you've said, parents have sense of entitlement, and why should you have to pay for the education of some other person's children?
I'm glad that your personal needs supercede the needs of children (or even adults, for that matter).
If you must know, I buried my only child nearly 3 years ago. There's nothing in my argument for me, and there's nothing in my argument for my child who will never get the fulfillment that arts could have brought.
Frankly VC, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Boobie Baby,
Your arguments don't wash. Allow me to dissect them point by point.
Why should I pay for the town to maintain a street that I don't drive on? Because the people on THAT street are paying for me to drive on the streets that I DO drive on even if THEY don't. It's reciprocal.
Why should I pay to maintain the men's room at Riverfront Park when I don't use it? Because plenty of men in town are paying to maintain the ladies room even though THEY don't use it. It's reciprocal.
Why should I pay for the children's section of the library if I don't use it? Because when I was a child, other people paid taxes to support the library in my town that I used. Now I pay taxes for someone else's children to do the same. It's reciprocal.
Why should I pay for the education of some other person's children? Because when I was a child, other people paid for my education through THEIR taxes. Now I pay for others to do the same. It's reciprocal.
In all of the above-mentioned areas, there is a balance.
You assume I'm of the mindset, "I got mine, and I'm not going to spend a cent helping you." Not true. I'm all for social programs that help POOR people, especially poor children who will never have a chance otherwise, but the people who NEED those programs are not living in Oro Valley!
If a parent in OV wants to take their child to the symphony, they can purchase the tickets any time they like. No one is stopping them.
I'm not anti-children. For years I sponsored a little boy in Costa Rica and a little girl in the Phillipines through a children's advocacy organization. These were truly poor children with minimal education and barely enough to eat. Hardly the type of child you will find in Oro Valley. And I'll just bet that the parents of these poor children wish that the biggest problem in their lives was that they couldn't take their child to the symphony.
I think that the middle and upper class people living in Oro Valley who are demanding that other people pay for their children to attend cultural events are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves.
Since you do not have any children, then you don't fall into that category, but most of the people who are pushing for this ARE a bunch of self-centered people with a sense of entitlement. I have talked to many of them, I have read their letters to the editor, and I have listened to them speak at council meetings. It's all about MY CHILD.
I would prefer to keep my money so I can donate it to the causes that I believe in. I currently donate to animal welfare groups and Native American organizations on a regular basis, two groups that are under-represented.
I'm sorry for your loss. I know that losing a child is one of the worst things that can happen to a person.
boobie-baby, I am truly sorry for your loss.
Now down to brass tacks. The maintenance of the restrooms are conducted by the Town of Oro Valley , Parks and Recreation and it is in their budget, which has not increased since the 911 scenario. The Town trys very hard to keep within their budget and if they find there is a shortfall, they will use another avenue or make adjustments and find a less expensive way to provide what they need. They do not go to the Town of Oro Valley and ask for more money. Perhaps GOVAC might want to go visit the Town of Oro Valley and learn how to become fiscally responsible.
Also the Oro Valley Library is funded by the Town of Oro Valley and Pima County through a joint system. If they need additional monies they have a group called "The Friends of the Library " that has books sales and other Fundraisers to provide extra money for the Library so the chilcren can have their books and the other services that are provided. Perhaps GOVAC needs to go the the "Friends of the Library" and learn how they are able to provide funding.
This shows me that there are many residents, who are not selfish and willing to donate their time or money. Perhaps the reason GOVAC has not received the response the Library has, is because it is well known that GOVAC always goes to the Town Council asking for money and more money every year. It is almost a joke. Maybe there needs to be a new approach and perhaps new individuals to run GOVAC
VC and TD,
I fully understand your points of view. You are free to use your resources as you see fit.
But, remember, someone before you gave their resources for you and your families to enjoy parks, libraries, and other amenities.
So, if we're going to talk about reciprocity, we need to take a broader view of it.
There's no doubt that GOVAC is in serious financial trouble. Reducing the salary of a manager will not solve that issue, nor will an audit.
The fact is that there are some municipal operations that will ALWAYS operate at a deficit--public transit, the arts, and even--for example--the women's tennis team at the U of A. But, since we really don't want to do away with any of them, we authorize our governing bodies (town and city councils, state board of regents, legislature) to expend funds because these activities are important to the greater community.
Oro Valley's Coyote Run could never operate without a subsidy from the Town's general fund. Since it's a money-losing proposition, should we discontinue it?
Sun Tran busses frequently have only one or two riders in the evening in Tucson. Should we discontinue the service because these two riders certainly can't pay for what it takes to operate the bus?
Believe me, if the Town Council were to grant GOVAC an additional $50,000 or $100,000 it would not impact you one bit--not your taxes, not your ability to support orphans in Costa Rica, the Phillipines--wherever you want.
It all comes down to priorities for a Town Council. Do they want a town that has gained recognition for its support of the arts (e.g., the public art pieces in front of each private or public development), or do they want to become another Marana or Casa Grande--lots of houses, lots of kids, lots of people on "fixed" incomes (no matter how high that "fix" is), but culturally bereft?
Enjoy the Arts in the Park, enjoy the free dance performances at Riverfront Park, enjoy the 4th of July concert that's been scaled down to a couple of local performing groups, enjoy the arts and crafts fair. But don't deny our students the opportunity to study with symphony musicians in their classrooms or for adults to enjoy concert or art display experiences without having to drive to Tucson at night when gasoline is $4 per gallon.
Hold KC and Paula's feet to the fire; let Bill and Salette know that GOVAC is an important part of this community and that the Town has an obligation to live up to its own agreement with GOVAC and to apply the policies in the voter-approved General Plan.
For those of you who expressed sympathy at my loss of a child, I would be remiss if I didn't tell you how much that child enjoyed the Independence Day concert at Riverfront Park. I have pictures of my child sitting there, taking it all in. It's so sad, around Father's Day, to know that even if this child were alive, the experience may never be repeated for others because of the small-mindedness of many in the community.
boobie baby you didn't answer my question. If you are using venues in Tucson and Pima County, THEN in addition to monies GOVAC would receive from the Town of Oro Valley, GOVAC should also receive funding from Tucson and Pima County. You mentioned the price of gas, well...that is a consideration for many people. So you are saying if GOVAC does not receive the funding they want from Oro Valley, then they will make the residents of Oro Valley pay more for gas to travel further for the arts etc. Is this some form of punishment?
Most businesses are required to have an audit to see where the money is distributed. This is usually a learning tool to see where adjustments can be made and when a Company refuses to give an audit of how they are distributing funds, this action usually causes a few eyebrows to raise and wonder why the refusal. It does not look good. Some would say that there may be some questionable activity. If there were no problems, than a Company is delighted to give the information when it is requested.
So, if what you say is true, then an audit will prove what you are professing. There is an old saying "thou protest too much"
Ahh, but GOVAC DOES receive money through the County and State and Federal governments--NEA, AZ Commision on the Arts, Tucson-Pima Arts Council, etc. So, they certainly can use those funds for activities outside of the town limits. And these funding agencies ALWAYS require an audit.
I'm not against an audit financed by the Town--that's fine. I still stand by my assertion that arts organizations are rarely profitable and almost always need to be subsidized.
It's not that the folks in OV are being punished by having to drive further for art exhibits or music or dance performances, but the fact is that without outside funding, there's less chance that these types of presentations will continue in OV.
Boobie-baby when I mentioned Tucson and Pima County, I was referring to going before the Town Council of Tucson and the Board of Supervisors of Pima County, like GOVAC does before the Town Council of Oro Valley. Not the NEA, AZ Commission on the arts and the Tucson-Pima Arts Council. I am sure the amounts of money given to GOVAC is all public record and nowhere near $110,000.00. It is well known that various Organizations give grants so,perhaps there is your answer. Find someone to write for Grants to provide funding for GOVAC. You have solved your own problem.
Sure--problem solved!
These grants (NEA, AZ Commission on the Arts) are notoriously difficult to get, and usually come with a zillion strings attached. Nevertheless, I believe that GOVAC has had some success in that area.
Certainly, GOVAC could go to the County Board of Supervisors to request funds. But we've got the same problem there, don't we? Why should someone who lives in Ajo or Green Valley have their taxes going to support the arts in "greater" Oro Valley? Besides, the city and county use the Tucson-Pima Arts Council as the conduit for financial support of the arts just so that political leaders don't have to deal with these types of issues.
But let's go back to the beginning of this thread--the Town and GOVAC have an operating agreement and the General Plan calls for arts support. It's up to the Council to decide how much, and I would contend that the grant to GOVAC should keep pace with the growth of the community. Only YOU, by contacting your Council member, can make that happen. Otherwise, it will be a bleak year for the arts in OV.
boobie-baby:
OV and GOVAC may have had an agreement..HOWEVER things have changed since then.
At one time GOVAC probably planned on providing arts to OV only. Now they consider themselves regional...
Why should the taxpayers of OV provide funding for a regional arts council??? Personally I as a taxpayer am tired of hearing how OV should pay for and provide free parks and services for everyone and anyone in the Greater Tucson area! I guess our streets are paved in gold!
If they are "regional" than their funding should be provided by the towns,cities,counties,etc that make up the region.
It maybe a "bleak" year in OV however since GOVAC has moved on to LaEncantada there will be arts in the area. AND there are many other fine arts groups out there. Tucson Jazz Society, SASO, Guitar Society, Chamber Music, fairs, Tohono Chul and the list goes on.
As far as grants being difficult and the hassel of paperwork - well they are paying $50,000.00 for a manager!
raindancer
Raindancer,
By your logic, perhaps we should stop everyone who enters Oro Valley and charge them to use our roads, our parks, our library, etc., etc. Of course, that's patently ridiculous. Do you expect to pay every time you go to a free concert at Reid Park or use Oracle Road to drive to Tucson Mall? Of course not, so let's just move beyond such a ridiculous notion. (Yes, I know that Randolph Golf Course has reduced greens fees for city residents--not a bad idea).
Yes, there will be arts programs that will be accessible to Oro Valley residents, either within OV or within the region. It's just sad that some GOVAC programs will have to be cut.
As for the $50 K that everyone keeps harping on, that's a reasonable salary for someone to manage a budget worth millions and serving hundreds of thousands of people (potentially). You get what you pay for. You reduce that salary to $35 K, and you might be able to squeeze in another program or two, but you lose experienced leadership.
I truly believe this thread has run out. You understand my position as I have stated it many times--let the Town Council know that you support funding for GOVAC that is in line with the community's growth. Again, it won't affect you and your taxes one iota if 50K or 100K is taken from the Town reserves.
Just to cap this one off, I asked a member of the GOVAC staff to drop me a line about the concert at LaEncantada and not here in Oro Valley. Here is the reply:
Thanks Don, you can just remind them that we receive only 10% of our annual funding from the TOV and that the remaining amount of our budget comes from earned revenue, corporate funding and grants, among many other sources, that are located outside of Oro Valley - Tucson and Pima County fund us as well. I always try to remind people that we are the GREATER Oro Valley Arts Council and that we have always presented events and supported programming in the Greater Oro Valley regions.
For this particular Summer Concert Series, we researched over 5 possible locations that we would be able to serve food, alcohol and charge an admission, each of which we were not able to use without being charged some sort of fee. The Parks and Recreation department has the park booked on all Saturday nights throughout the year with sports teams, so that also remained an unviable location for us to use as well.
Plus the Town Code prohibits alcohol on public property (e.g., our parks, town hall campus), and--fortunately or unfortunately--alcohol is a money-maker at concerts and fund-raisers. The reasoning by GOVAC, therefore, makes perfect sense to me.
Great, OV thinker spoke with an individual from the GOVAC's staff that stated they receive funding from the grants, I mentioned and Companies, many of which are not in the Town of OV. So they can have functions elsewhere and not find it necessary to jump funding almost $100,000.00 more from the Town of Oro Valley. They have been having various functions for many years and not requiring so MUCH money from this town Also their function were in the Town of Oro Valley and now many have moved to new venues outside of Oro Valley.
A friend of mine told me they turned down the idea of selling water, which on a hot day is a very popular commidity. Here alone is a money maker and they are not interested.
Dancer...I don't believe I understand your point. Can you please restate it?
Thanks.
Honestly, TD, selling water as a fund-raiser sounds an awful lot like a Brownie troop washing cars at a gas station, or selling lemonade in the street. Or bringing in Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney to put on a show in the barn.
We're talking about real money here, not the pittance that comes from water sales.
If, in fact, a grant from the Town makes up only 10% of GOVAC's budget, it seems to be that they're doing an admirable job of trying to become more self-sufficient.
I still maintain that the Town has a moral and legal obligation to support GOVAC in line with the growth of the community. And, again, it won't affect your taxes in the slightest, so why not support GOVAC's request? Would we prefer to see the organization declare bankruptcy? Who benefits from that? You? Me?
Once again, let your Council person know that you support GOVAC's request--the final budget has not been approved, and there's time for the Council to make these very slight changes. There's no cash cow here, nor a golden calf. But a small increase in the town's investment in the arts will help to maintain this "community of excellence." Otherwise, we're just a "community of mediocrity."
Ov objective thinker.
My point is that, your friend the staff member of GOVAC stated that only 10% of their funding comes from the Town of Oro Valley, so they are receiving other funding from Grants etc. which is a great deal more. 90% to be exact, so I don't see why it is necessary for the Town of Oro Valley to be expected to donate almost $200,000.00.
Also Boobie-baby, selling water on the 4th of July with thousand of hot thirsty people would not be like a Girl Scount troop washing cars or a lemonade stand. That would be thousands of dollars, no small pittance
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