A few points were noted in the article that we want to highlight.
- SAHBA is claiming that "the high cost of building new homes in the two towns is contributing to sprawl by pushing developers beyond city limits."
Response: C'mon SAHBA, get real. Customer demand and mortgage rates drive home building. Not impact fees. - SAHBA Vice President Roger Yohem, talking about Oro Valley and Marana, is quoted as saying: "They're so addicted to impact fees, they can't live off the backs of the builders forever."
Response: Is this "Chutzpah," or what? Maybe it's just complete ignorance. Oro Valley finally raised their water impact fees after 11 years, and the Council felt sorry for the builders, so they "tiered" the fees over five years to lessen the burden, and this guy is still whining. Give us a break! - The Explorer article states: "In 2006, the median price of a new home in Oro Valley was $434,941.
Response: At last month's Council meeting, (as we reported here---see "Water" under "Issues") --- Hizzoner Paul Loomis saw fit to "correct" Art Segal concerning the median price of new homes in OV. Loomis said it was $225,000. He was previously corrected here by one of our astute bloggers. Perhaps, he can accept the fact, he was totally wrong!
Read the whining by clicking here.
9 comments:
Development is going to continue in Oro Valley as long as their is land to build on regardless of the impact fees. Mortgage rates drive demand. It's time for new development to pay for the growth costs it is causing.
Yes zee man.
I say we offer them some cheese.
I just love, no pun intended, this site. It is a great source of entertainment and a place for some pretty decent dialog.
I don't know who posted the original story (I think I do because it is full of inaccurate statements which would fit the person) but I would suggest that someone take them aside and explain the difference between wine and whine.
Now to the issue. Let's all ask Zee Man and Artmarth to explain what costs are not paid by new development? As usual an accusation but nothing to support it. And please be specific...if you can. Here is your chance to truly identify one of your primary gripes.
Second of all, one of my criticisms of the CAVE crowd is that they never give credit when something good happens. They are so jaded that good becomes non-existent to them.
On page 2 of the Explorer is an article detailing how SAHBA directed the VOLUNTEER effort to stabilize some of the buildings at Steampump Ranch. Kudos to SAHBA for their community spirit and effort.
That's more than I can say for others that I can't mention.
Objective Thinker. You are right. Thanks for noting it. I posted the original "wine". Art fixed it. Art can spell!
Now, here are some examples of the impact of development that have not been paid for by new development:
1. Water. If there had been limited growth the town would not have to seek added water sources. A report on this is online at the Town Website. New construction got a free ride on this for ten years.
2. Road construction, like the redoing of La Canada; the planned expansion of if North or Naranja; the expansion beyond Tangerine. The expansion of First Avenue.
3. Who will pay for the expansion of Oracle Road from Concordia to Pusch View Lane?
4. The new Town Offices, caused because the Town Administration has grown so big (and bloated)
5. Added Police to cope with more people. Heck, we all have to pay a stupid utility tax to pay for more cops.
OV Thinker: Growth has not paid for growth in Oro Valley.
Instead of inducing significant enterprises (not retail) to locate here, thus creating new sources of high value jobs, Oro Valley leaders have encouraged robust growth without understanding the financial impact of growth. As a result, all of us are paying for it.
And I'm not whining!!!
Hi Thinker.
You say that the "cave" crowd never give credit when something good happens.
Here You go. I saw that article and picuture about the volunteers working
to do emergency repairs to the ranch and thought it was a great gesture.
In my opinion most just don't have the time to work on noting these good deeds because too many other things going on in OV take up
the time.
Maybe some day in the future there will come a time when we don't haveto continually monitor our town politics.
Until that time, its a dirty job and I for one am grateful to have
interested people who question and
confront.
I just 'love' it. YOU are the one that gets Art in trouble all of the time by posting things under his screenname!!! Art, I apologize...kind of!! :-)
Thanks for the response and the chance to set the record straight.
As was somewhat accurately pointed out in another posting, development is driven by demand. The beauty of the area, weather, absence of most big city problems, access to good human services (health care, schools, etc) have caused our community to grow. And I might take this opportunity to point out that our community continues to grow because when people visit our area they like it. They also like the price. All of that does not come as a result of bad planning. The natural resources are augmented by overall good planning. But back to your growth issues.
I'll address your issues in the order presented.
1. The price we are paying for the CURRENT water supply has risen primarily due to the cost of maintenance of the system and the introduction of effluent for use on turf areas. The cost for future water sources is what the additional bond issues are all about. And, of course, current residents have to pay for it and will newcomers to the area. We can't charge people who aren't here yet. We could also do better if we would quit wasting so much water.
And when should the Town limit growth? Just before you got here? Just before I got here. Maybe in 1974 when the Town was first incorporated they should have said, "That's it. No more folks." Then all of us would still be in the same place we are today but we would be residents of unincorporated Pima County. Just because a government entity says we are not going to allow any more building within the confines of our borders, DOES NOT STOP GROWTH. It simply avoids the issue and typically the result of that is far worse than what we have today.
Drive out west on Picture Rocks Road or Avra Valley Road and see the result of bad/no planning. That's what you would have if Pima County was in charge.
2.The road construction you mention here IS being paid for, in large part, by the impact fees of growth. What impact fees cannot pay for is the unknown cost of inflation. You use LaCanada. I use LaCanada. You use First Avenue and I use First Avenue. The folks in Catalina, Saddlebrooke and southern Pinal County utilize those roads and we all, collectively, should pay for their improvement. You appear to think only those that are moving into our community should pay for the road improvements that you, I and others use.
3. The Oracle Road improvements are an ADOT project and therefore the cost of that comes from our state highway funds.
4. While growth has caused some expansion in our Town government, much of that expansion is caused by excessive governmenrt regulation and the Town's need to comply. Stormwater management, growing smarter regulations, new buillding and safety codes, and a host of others all cause the number of people to oversee those mandates to increase. Now don't interpret that as my condemnation of those programs. But the increase in the population in Oro Valley is not the only cause for government to grow. I am not pleased with the number of people recently hired and budgeted for in the 2008 budget and I have so stated that to each member of the Town Council. There will come a
time for each of them to account for their vote. I opposed the utility tax vigerously. I also opposed the relocation of the maintenance yard to it's future home. That was a bad decision made by some members of the current Council (Dankwerth, Carter, Abbott, Parish, Gillaspie and Loomis). We wasted well over $2 million on that issue. Another property was available (and in fact the Town had made an offer to purchase) which when purchased would have made an adjacent parcel available and we would have had sufficient room for far less money.
5. More police are a direct result of the demands of the population for a safe community. Frankly, when you look at the crime statistics presented at the budget hearings, there is a strong argument against the for additional police. We have been sorely lacking in senior administration for many years....back to the Werner Wolff years. So I support that increase. But we should be more objective when it comes to the police budget.
Lastly, Zee Man, there seems to be a great out cry for "high value jobs", as you put it. High paying (value) jobs don't help a community fiscally. Jobs, high paying or minimum wage, don't pay a dime of government costs unless an income tax is levied. When, AND WHERE,that money is spent creates revenue for our government in the form of sales taxes. That's also the vehicle by which we can recover road money from the Catalinian and the Saddlebrooke resident. And "high end", "upscale", "locally owned boutiques" simply aren't going to get the job done. There just isn't the demand for that stuff which the Buxton Report made very clear.
You are whining now, and far too loudly me thinks, about the meager taxes (local) you currently pay. If we didn't have the projected sales tax revenue that will be generated by the OV Marketplace, I can't imagine the decible level that would emit from you vocal cords!!! :-)
That's it for now. Come join us for practice Monday!!!
And don't you have anything better to do at 4:08 AM?????
OVOT,
I have heard the Oro Valley economic development director on more than one occasion state his intent to pursue high-paying jobs as a major plank of his economic development platform.
Good jobs do, indeed, pay for our government. They allow people to be able to pay for the $700,000 median new house, which pays for impact fees that help run the town. Those people pay utility taxes, water fees, and other things that support the town. They would not be able to afford to live here without good jobs.
Dear OV Mom.
David Welsh has said that on many occasions but if you ask him he will tell you that without retail a good paying job does the town little good.
But you also pointed out a very important point. THANK YOU!! You made my point. Development does pay for itself. When someone pays for a $700,000 home in Oro Valley (which is far above the average) they have paid for the development and for future roadway construction. But they do little to provide the town with additional revenues unless they have an outlet for their expendable income and that is called retail sales.
The other income you mentioned is only for what they have used...water for example. We cannot run the town on a 2% utility tax. WE MUST HAVE THE RETAIL INCOME.
Thanks for your reply!! Stay cool!!
OVOT,
I'm glad that you agree that home buyers pay the fees, and that SAHBA really has no reason to complain.
Actually, the average price of a new home is far higher than $700,000. It's over $1 million, but that's because of at least four homes that are over $4 million, so I decided to quote the median price as it seemed more reflective of what the typical new home in Oro Valley costs.
I don't think most people would be comfortable with supporting the good salaries of local government employees by being encouraged to buy lots of cheap junk made by poor teenagers in China. I think that's the real reason that Mr. Welsh portrays his mission as bringing good jobs to Oro Valley.
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