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This Wednesday, the Oro Valley Town Council will hold a public hearing on the clarification of the meaning of "may". If the Planning and Zoning Commission's recommendation is adopted, then apartment units will be allowed to be built on the northwest corner of Rancho Vistoso Boulevard and Tangerine Road.At issue is whether apartment units may be allowed on this property; not whether they will actually be built. That determination comes after plans are submitted and the process of gaining town approval for the actual project begins.
Click here to read the information that has been provided to Town Council.
Read our previous coverage of this rezoning request.
Our report properly notes that the Oro Valley Planning and Zoning Commission "...added a fifth condition which stated that 'The amendment only be approved if access from Tangerine Road be granted by ADOT' ". However, note that the town "Staff recommends a connection onto Woodburne Avenue in addition to required roadway improvements as stipulated in the conditions of approval". It does not note that this connection would be for emergency vehicles only, as discussed at the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.
It is imperative, therefore, that residents appear in front of Council at this public hearing on Wednesday to state their position regarding this PAD amendment request. There is no "guarantee" that your prior concerns, regardless of how firmly stated or eloquently spoken, will find their way to the seven council members. A strong showing in support of or not in support of this amendment will make a difference.
Remember, please, that if you do not exercise your right to speak, you will "get what you get" which might not be what you thought was agreed upon at the Planning and Zoning Commission public hearing.
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33 comments:
Interesting meeting last night, and it once again proved showed why we really need to realign our form of government to deal with such complex matters as this. Part timers who would rather deal with catch phrases as "glass is half full", and statements like.."Even your Mayor at one time lived in an apartment", are self servicing, and all we want are facts.
As far as apartment living in Tucson Metro goes.....
Fact - Rental Vacancy Rate of 15.9%!!! Homeowner vacancy rate 6.8% as far as empty cities goes in the US. We are # 1 empty city in the USofA
Fact- Own three rental properties in Tucson/OV:
La Reserve - Two Bedroom, top views, top notch property, rent $775 per month. This property sat empty for two months. Where were the renters the Mayor talked about??
Campbell Rd - Two bedroom, average views, same type property as La Reserve, rent 1,075, has never been vacant in four years.
River Road - One bedroom, great views, same type property as La Reserve, $945 monthly.
My properties are managed by a very aggressive management company who stated as recently as two weeks ago.....................
There is a glut of apt space that already exist in OV, and we were lucky to rent for $775.
I do not live in Rancho Visto, but do live in OV and only want the best for our great town. Complex issues such as this and health insurance costs need full time devotion, void of emotion, and full of facts so logical decisions can be made. Unfortunately our town gov't structure is not in place to do justice to it's citizens. Also, if our council members live in fear of lawsuits, then why did they run for office in the first place?
I know many council members have serious full time jobs; however this is a part time job for them that needs full time attention. Also, last but not least (another over used expression used last night) for some council members, please play down the tomfoolery, and play up to more diligent research out of respect for your citizens.
So all you have to do is increase the pay of the Council members to a liveable wage.
How do you think that will fly????
Not once did I mention increasing ones pay, but nice try.
We have a lot of personnel in place in our town's true professional administration section, Town Manager Department, such as town manager, ass't town manager, senior office specialist, and exec ass't to the town manager, communications manager, business development manager, and I wonder if we are using their talent to the max of their abilities. Go to the town's web site, and just read the Town Managers Mission Statement to get my meaning. Do special interests groups have such a strong hold on key members of the council that these talented people act as clerks, and have no influence. Why is it we can't retain professional experienced town managers; is it out of frustration on their part in knowing no matter how professional they present a budget or ideas, they are simply ignored. Most small towns like ours cannot afford to employ so many people in professional adminstration without getting our bang for the buck.
If amateurs (there is one council member with a very impressive resume in gov't administration) are going to run our town it is ok as long as they work together for the welfare of the citizens. It does appear at times as though some council members pay no attention to material provided by our professional administrators, citizen volunteer groups, individual citizens, and are beholden to special interest groups, and not their citizens.
That said, in the order of full disclosure and to erase any suspicion, perhaps each council member should provide audited financial statements every year they are in office to the town's legal dept, sign a disclosure statement stating no family members are receiving compensation in any form from any public/private sector entity that might cause a conflict in their job duties, and cannot engage in employment or consulting for a period of three years after leaving office with any private or public sector entity that has direct dealing with the town of OV.
I removed a comment from Objective Thinker because it included a reference to a long-past situation regarding individuals that has no relevance to this current discussion.
The following is Thinkers's posting without this reference:
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Fear.... Apartment occupancy rate in Oro Valley is north of 90% and there is a demand for additional units expressed by some of our major local employers. Real estate (to include apartment occupancy) is very local. You cannot compare the occupancy rate in Tucson with Oro Valley. It just doesn't work that way. Your occupancy experience would indicate a high occupancy rate although you didn't say if the River Rd property was rented. I'll assume it was/is or you would have so stated to bolster your point.
Unfortunately not every vote made by our governing body pleases every member of the community. However, in the last Town Council elections all races, with the exception of the Mayorial race were won by a very comfortable margin.
Since that time there was a recall effort for two of those elected which failed miserably. Therefore I find it difficult to have any empathy for those who say the Town Council is NOT representative of the wishes of the community as a whole. I suspect the next election may have similar results.
Lastly, you and others who frequently post on this blog keep using the term "special interest group(s)". You, my friend are part of a special interest group. I am part of a special interest group. This blog is a special interest group. The Town staff is a special interest group. The Town is full of special interest groups. I fail to see the significance of the term?
Allow me to respond to the cox comment that my friend The Zee Man saw fit to edit.
Knowing the identity of "Fear The Turtle:" certainly knowing the Zee Man, and speaking for myself, I can assure cox that none of us have the following:
1) None of us are OV Police and therefore we do not have free take home vehicles.
2) We have no interest in lowering the impact fees for any "friendly" developers.
3) We have no interest in placing advertising signs all over the sidewalk.
4) we have no interest in building 75'hotels or 3 story office complexes.
5) We have no interest in taking over the Coyote Run Bus Service.
6) We have no interest in building apartment complexes wherever their may be vacant land in Oro Valley.
The fact is, as citizens looking out for fellow citizens and have cox suggest "we" are Special Interest Groups is ludicrous!
Thinker,
You fail to understand the significance of the term "special interest" because you do not want to understand it.
Speaking for myself (and I'm pretty sure the others would agree with me) when I speak of special interests, I am referring to people who do not live in Oro Valley, who do not pay taxes here, but who want to have a HUGE say in what happens in OUR town. They often do not care about what's best for the citizens of the town. Their chief concern is how much money they can make off their "plan" and how fast can they make it.
"They" don't care if their plan destroys someone's property value, or creates traffic problems, or pollutes the air, or destroys the views, or displaces wildlife, etc. Their ONLY concern is money.
Then "they" try to convince the rest of us that we "need" whatever it is that they're trying to sell.
Special interest groups also have a lot of power/influence, a lot of money, and a team of lawyers.
This blog does not fall into that category. Neither do you. Neither do I.
We are concerned citizens. We are not special interests. There is a huge difference!
Fear,
Great information in your posts and stimulating ideas of how to use TOV staff. Thanks.
OVOT,
You feel the facts about Tucson refer only to municipal Tucson, and don't include surrounding areas like OV. However, when I moved here to nonTucsonans I said Tucson not Oro Valley because they would not know where it was.
However, this is an inconsistency that you may offer some insight for. A realtor with your company lists and markets Eagle Crest, Catalina, Pinal County as a "subdivision" of Oro Valley. Now don't you think that's s-t-r-e-t-c-h?
art/Fear...
Below is the statement from Fear's comment.
"It does appear at times as though some council members pay no attention to material provided by our professional administrators, citizen volunteer groups, individual citizens, and are beholden to special interest groups, and not their citizens."
The term "special interest groups" in totally undefined and therefore open to any speculation the reader wishes to attach to it. I suggest that if one wishes to make a point about a "special interest group" then identify what "group" it is.
Specifically art, you do have an interest, as do others, in doing away with take home vehicles. Therefore those in that group are a special interest group against take home vehicles.I could repeat all of your comments but I think/hope you get the point.
DV....I fail to see the revelance of your point. What does the fact the folks outside Oro Valley don't know where Oro Valley is located have to do with real estste/rental markets?
Many Realtors still list properties in Oro Valley and elsewhere and call them Tucson. Again, your comment has no revelance to the post.
Not sure why I even bother to respond to OVOT, especially since he tried to take this discussion down into the sewer with his comments that were thankfully edited out. My only special interest is seeing that the developers, unions, and outside gov't entities do not have undue influence on our political leaders.
Our political leaders should be working for their citizens, and by our political leaders providing full financial statements and signed discloure forms would help with any credibility issues.
Hey Turtle---- You, I and probably everyone but cox understood the entities you were referring to as "Special Interest."
You're also correct in noting "Why bother?"
It's like Rumpelstiltskin trying to make gold out of straw.
OVOT,
Your colleague listed property, indeed whole development as "a subdivision of OV" 1. it is in Pinal Co 2. It is located In Catalina 3. Is is unconnected to Oro Valley, ie municipally, county-wise as tax base 3) an "enormous" misrepresentation designed, in my opinion, to dupe the reader/potential buyer. Furthermore, the implicit expectation is that this development will coast on OV coattails in terms of services, infrastruction and will not pay a penny for them. I think that is akin to fraud.
If I lived in Greater Tucson, then why wouldn't a national survey include OV as part of the state for the #1 state for most depressed?
However, we differ here. I like documentation and contacted publisher to ask exactly how Tucson was defined in the study.
DV....If you feel strongly about the issue contact pls contact the Tucson MLS and file a complaint. I doubt there was any fraudulent intent involved. It is more likely just an oversight.
Fear...I agree that those groups should not have any undue influence. And to date
I have not seen any indication of that. Nor has anyone presented any credible evidence of that.
The conduct was 'sewerlike', not my reference to it.
art...Why bother? I don't find it a bother to represent to majority.
Then you don't have a problem with full disclosure as mentioned in my earlier posting. Any person running for, or in any political office in OV would have to provide full disclosure items to the town's legal department for review.
Lets establish objective, not subjective criteria when it comes to establishing and maintaining credibility for our politicans.
Fear....And what would that accomplish?
To provide personal confidential information has not proven at other levels to stop corruption.
My initial reaction to that proposal is that it is overkill, but I am willing to listen to the reasoning behind it.
Why is it one has to supply a lender with a truckload of personal and financial date to get a loan, and we ask for nothing from those who we lend our town to?
Not asking for a lot of personal info just financial data, and disclosure forms. This is a very small step to help with any credibility issues.
Fear....I have never been one to give a lot of credibility to the "because others do it" argument. Usually A has nothing to do with B. There are conflict of interest laws in place that 'protect' us from such activities. Why do you feel they are not sufficient?
It really isn't that complicated, and I can't keep repeating myself.
Get out from behind your computer, clear your mind, and enjoy this beautiful day!
Thinker,
As usual, you see what you want to see. When someone you don't like makes a mistake because of an oversight, you claim that it wasn't an oversight at all, but it was deliberate.
Then, when one of your real estate colleagues does something questionable, and there is much evidence to show that it was deliberate, you claim...
"I doubt there was any fraudulent intent involved. It is more likely just an oversight."
An oversight? Really? You mean that your colleague is so uninformed that he thought that the subdivision was located in Oro Valley? He doesn't know where the OV town line ends and Catalina begins? He also thought it was in Pima County? He doesn't know where the Pinal County line begins? Gee, I know where it is and it's not my job to know that.
I agree with Desert Voice. This was clearly a misrepresentation designed to dupe the potential buyer.
And I'm commenting on this because it's another example of how you call yourself objective when the evidence shows that you are not.
V Cowgirl,
Thanks for such clarity...every "thinking" person should get it.
OVOT, realtor marketing Eagle Crest is one of Long's Top Producers.
Fear and Art, to support your well made points, when interests act truthfully, there is no hesitation to disclose. The opposite, declining to disclose admits there is dishonesty, illegality, corruption. OVOT, you might want to rethink what that says about you.
Pursuant to this topic, Reagor and Hansen, 12/23/10 in AZ REP, wrote:
"What is clear is overly optimistic population projections led to a host of decisions that contributed to the housing crash and economic decline. Builders constructed too many houses they couldn't sell. Business expanded but their customer base didn't . Government planned for future gtowth that didn't come.
An AZ RE analysis done in 2008 found the state's population estimates have been weighted toward how many homes were built and sold as opposed to other factors such as birth and death rates. The State Court assumed these homes were being filled with new residents, but many of them were actually empty.
When Council perpetuates the fantasy of a thriving economy in OV while collapse hovers over Wall St and foreign markets, the need for additional apartments while constructed ones offer financial incentives to renters, and 500 new jobs "appear" admidst widespread unemployment, constituents listen incredulously at their disconnect from reality, special interests definitely come to mind.
This time let's learn learn from recent history and make decisions based in reality.
DV.... I fail to see how your 'discovery' reflects on me in any way.
There are many listing errors made by many Realtors. I once stated there was a lockbox on a home that didn't have one until later in the day. I doubt that had any bearing on anything as I suspect your discovery has any bearing on anything.
As I suggested if it is important to you, contact the MLS and they will notify the Realtor and get the listing corrected. If not, what real point are you trying to make?
OVOT,
Professions, ie legal, judicial, police have self-disciplining mechanisms. My guess about why that is, is that they realize the "image" that one of their own has in the community reflects back on all its members. Ergo, if you a realtor are not concerned by such extreme misrepresentation by one of your own, you are not concerned that buyers label you like top seller as misspeaking.
You think disclosure is a waste of time. Sounds like you've given up on integrity. "It's too much work" and some will continue to decieve.
Those are not qualties of an optimist nor of one who aspires to excellence. It sounds like your low expectations have resigned you to mediocrity.
That is where we differ. LOVE bloggers aspire to excellence and know it exists.
Desert....Pardon my brazen comment but, you are full of crap.
You are blowing something, which in the grand scheme of things, is relativly minor, totally out of proportion. I could go into a long dissertation as to why the error you mentioned is relatively unimportant but to explain something in detail to you would probably leave you in the dust.
Secondly, my integrity as a Realtor has never been questioned and in fact I was designated to train new Realtors for multiple years. You are barking up the wrong tree here, my friend.
Lastly, I can provide you with a body of evidence that will cast a dark shadow on the "excellence" of some of the regular LOVE bloggers.
Your comment is laughable!!
Thinker,
There you go again being rude, making comments like, "you are full of crap" and "your comment is laughable!"
Those who cannot defend their words or actions always resort to belittling the other person.
Now you're trying to compare a realtor asserting that a home is located in a much nicer town than where it is actually located...
with...
a realtor asserting that a house has a lock box when in fact it hadn't been installed yet, but was installed later that day.
Stating that there is a lock box when it hasn't been installed yet will in no way draw more buyers to that property. However, stating that a house is located in Oro Valley when in fact it is located in Catalina, will dupe buyers into taking a look at a house that they would otherwise not have considered.
Therefore, your analogy is laughable. (Sarcasm.)
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Thinker,
"Lastly, I can provide you with a body of evidence that will cast a dark shadow on the "excellence" of some of the regular LOVE bloggers."
We are not interested in character assassinations nor the treat of such. Kindly refrain from such.
This blog is seeking discussions that are fruitful for building a great Oro Valley.
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Zeeman....If you are not interested in character assinations, then I would suggest, strongly, you question those who would question and challenge my professional integrity. When you do it for both sides YOU will gain some credibility.
What I stated was not a "treat" or a threat nor a character assassination. It was a simple statement of fact that some of the posters on this blog have not met what I would consider a level of "excellence", the bar set by one of the other bloggers.
A candidate (Garner) must run on his record which includes his conduct, both on and off the dais.
First "assass.....misspelled!!!
OVOT: A candidate (Solomon) must run on his record which includes his conduct, on, off and reaching over the dais.
cares....All candidates must run on their record.
OVOT,
You might want to reread the post.
In comparing legal, justice and law enforcement who correct their own members, the hint was that YOU, if you are concerned about the integrity of all realtors, might suggest to your colleague that he/she advertise the property factually. Agent may ignore that listing relects on all realtors not just him/her. It's called peer pressure.
You either misunderstood or ignored my intent. If you are ignoring it, that suggests you tolerate such deviant practices.
VC, you have a gift for clear thinking and writing. We are blessed with your submissions.
Yes, Cares, Solomon does have to run on his record both on and off the dias.
OVOT,
24/7Wallst published "America's Ten sickest housing markets" on Aug.3,2011. S&P/Shiller-Case used metropolitan areas of the worst cities. By definition, this includes Oro Valley,Marana,Foothills, Sahuarita,South Tucson, Cassa Adobes, Flowing Wells, Tanque Verde, Trotilita, New Pascua,Vail as well as Benson, Catalina, Oracle and Green Valley.
Hopes this assuages your reservation about how Tucson was defined.
DV...A couple of weeks ago some publication stated that Tucson was one of the top 10 markets for retired folks.
Opinions are nothing more than that.
Take a look at the MLS statistics for the best and most timely info for the Tucson market.
OVOT,
Tsk! tsk! You know stats rely on the credibility of the professional doing the collating. In NYC legalland is huge, so there is accountabillity. Standard and Poor's rules Wall St, OVOT. They have too much at stake to fudge.
Just look around you locally...life is hard in your business...guess since you are a million dollar producer you invested...
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