Following(below)is from Lyra Done, Chair of the Public Policy of the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce.
All we can say is ---We hope intimidation won't work!
We don't need Oro Valley businesses lit up from "dusk to dawn" which is is what the Chamber wants.
Any Council Member that votes "Yes" deserves to be an Ex Council Member!!!!
Art
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6. PUBLIC HEARING - ORDINANCE NO. (O)09 - 18 OV7-09-005 AMENDING SECTION 28.3 REQUIREMENTS, AND SECTION 28.5, PERMANENT SIGNS, OF THE ORO VALLEY ZONING CODE REVISED
Explanation: The zoning code amendment would permit wall signs to be illuminated until 10 P.M. or to be turned off immediately after closing, whichever is later.
Explorer article here
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/08/12/news/doc4a81f41c7aa536
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STUFF THE COUNCIL CHAMBER AUGUST 19TH
We must “MOBILIZE THE VOICE OF BUSINESS” if we plan to be of any assistance to the retail businesses and commercial community.
Businesses were notified by letter on April 30, 2009 that in 30 days the Town would begin enforcing the current back lit illuminated sign operating hours. They have done this.
On July 7th, it went before the Planning and Zoning committee with a change in text to allow this particular type sign to be left on until 10:00 PM or be turned off immediately upon closing beyond the 10:00 PM hour.
The Chamber Public Policy committee has a Sign Sub-Committee that has researched the impact on business and provided what we feel is a better solution. Based on Identification, Safety, Advertising, Tourist and Newcomers, Lost Sales Tax revenue for the town, the committee after extensive deliberation decided to recommended to the Board of Directors to support the text change to read “Dusk to Dawn” operating hours.
It was the decision of the Board of Directors that The Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce supports the text change for back lit illuminated signs to be on “Dusk to Dawn”.
When this goes before the Council 6 PM on August 19th, it is imperative we FILL the room with business people supporting the “Dusk to Dawn” text change to the sign code. That night each supporter will be given a badge “Dusk to Dawn”. Come out and help us accomplish this undertaking.
We must “Mobilize the Voice of Business”
I thank you in advance for your participation
Lyra Done Chair
Pubic Policy Committee
35 comments:
I see that Lyra Dunce is at it again.
Has anyone, ANYONE, anywhere thought to contact Kitt Peak National Observatory in order to determine how this unique, highly prestigious agency, currently supported by a score of universities and governmental agencies throughout the world, will respond to a plan to light up Oro Valley from dawn to dusk? Would Oro Valley or any chamber of COMMERCE wish to adversely impact a multi-millon (perhaps billion)dollar optical sciences advantage that Arizona and most especially Pima County enjoys over the rest of the entire planet - perhaps the universe?
Of course, I meant dusk to dawn, but the concept made me so spastic I had to request CPR.
VC....If I had posted the same comment about you what would the reaction be?
Phil...The answer to your question is probably no, but the sign code under which the lights were installed, has very strict provisions with regard to the night sky. The recent warehouse fire just off of I-10 would light up the sky far more than the lights in question.
The sign code under which the lights were installed also has provisions that the lights be turned off one hour after the business closes. Lyra Done and friends want to change that to allow the lights to be on all night. When every business has its lights on all night, it will be difficult for any individual business to stand out. So perhaps by this time next year, Lyra will be demanding that the lumens be allowed to be increased. In any case, goodbye dark skies.
Codes that are archaic need to be revised to reflect current conditions.
As usual OV Mom throws out another red herring. You sound as though Oro Valley will look like the Vegas strip, which was another idiotic comment made.
This entire sign ordeal was caused by one individual verbally whining and not one single written complaint. Since when do we let one individual run our community?
"Mobilize the Voice of Business", give me a freakin break!
Does the NPCCC really think that this matter is so significant that they need to alienate a community?
How about some focus here NPCCC and help out your clients in these very tough economic times.
Is the NPCCC providing their clients with advise on how to conduct strong marketing campaigns through the use of direct mail, telemarketing, seminar, and exhibit sales?
Networking events are useless and a big waste of time unless that business is reaching it's targeted audience, and also have the processes in place to follow up, monitor, and close the deal.
Come on NPCCC isn't your time is much more valuable and can be put to better use then to meddle in this matter.
Thinker,
If Palin can call Obama a "terrorist" and O'Reilly can call a doctor, "Tiller the Baby Killer," then I can call Lyra a "dunce."
She claims that businesses NEED their lights on overnight for...
(1) SAFETY. Just how does a lit sign over the door translate into safety?
(2) ADVERTISING. You advertise in the newspaper and in the yellow pages and by direct mail, and if you're a reputable business, you will also get word of mouth advertising from your customers.
(3) TOURISTS. Yes, I'm sure thousands of tourists are out "touring" the area at 3 AM.
(4) NEWCOMERS. Ditto.
Additionally, when I was a "newcomer" I received tons of direct mail marketing ads from local businesses. That's one of the ways I discovered what businesses were here. I also found their ads in magazines such as Tucson Lifestyle.
(5) LOST SALES TAX REVENUE. Just how will these businesses collect sales tax revenue from dusk to dawn when they are CLOSED from dusk to dawn?
As I said in an earlier post, American Home Furnishings and Pella Windows had all night signage and they STILL went out of business.
It's the economy, stupid.
VC....You can call anyone you wish a dunce. It just isn't your style....I thought.
Obama is at least an economic terrorist. Tiller was a baby killer. So it sounds like they are relatively accurate descriptions.
As soon as lights go out in a business it is an indication that they are closed and more subject to burglers. That's the take of the police department. It also helps first responders quickly identify a business.
Signage is a form of advertising.
Tourisis are out at midnight. So are locals. There is a large workforce that is out at night. Not everyone here in Sleep Hollow goes to bed at 8 PM.
Sales tax may increase if the business gains new customers because people now know where they are located.
No one comes around to residences and tells you (pl) to turn off your outside light at dusk and most of them are more harmful to the night sky than most all of the business signs. Maybe we should put that into the code as well.
I wish people got as lathered up about the mismanagement at Pima County as they do about a business sign.
Cox--- Isn't it bad enough when you make asinine statements about Oro valley goings on?
Now, you think you sound intelligent with this crap you spew?
"Obama is at least an economic terrorist. Tiller was a baby killer. So it sounds like they are relatively accurate descriptions."
Save your national political views for another forum. Not here!
Thinker.
The only "economic terrorist(s)" out there are the wizzards of wall street who thought it was a good idea to loan money to people who could not pay it back. The rest of the crew, including both Pres. Bush and Obama are pawns. Pawns like us who have to suffer through hard times while Pima county raises our property taxes to pay the medical bills of illegals who joyfully load up the trusty Ford Ecoline van with 25 plus people only to roll over on I 19, sending fully 36% of the passengers to the tax funded hospital.
NW
Thinker,
No, name calling isn't normally my style, but some people just get under my skin.
However, if/when I ever say anything dunce-like, such as, "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" or "The Vice-President controls Congress" you may feel free to call me a dunce. I will not object.
My outside light is rarely on and is NEVER left on from dusk to dawn except on the rare occasion that I forget to turn it off.
I doubt it helps first responders quickly identify a business. If they're responding to a break-in, the alarm will point them to the correct business. If they're responding to a fire, the smoke and flames will point them to the business.
And I assume that the police are well-versed on the locations of OV businesses.
Whew, if BS were metal, NPCCC and followers would be a whole brass band! It is obvious to me, a SEASONED (now retired)'storefront' operator, that advocating that signs lit from "dusk to dawn" will up a business is whole lot of hocus-pocus!!! And Lyra Done, self-proclaimed goddess of the all knowing, are you simply a loud and schmaltzy 'innie' with a thirst for adulation?
When I was looking for a home here in Oro Valley I was assured by several in Lyra's profession that the Town was a quiet, people first, nature oriented place; since that time I have felt the overwhelming oppression of a business orientation gone amok. IT'S TIME TO PUT A HALT TO THIS CHARADE.
As a side note, for the past week I have had a visitor here from Maryland; she has spent, so far, approximately $3500 - $4000 in goods and services but only approximately $50 of it here in Oro Valley. She has bought art, locally made jewelry, unique apparel, and likes to eat in fine restaurants; well, ok, we ate at El Charro one night, the rest was purchased in Tucson. She didn't come here for dental work, she didn't come here to purchase cell phone service, she didn't come here to buy stuff for her swimming pool in Annapolis nor did she need a bike, a wide screen tv, a computer, or whatever else is offered for sale here in Oro Valley. LIT SIGN ADVOCATES, WHEN IS REALITY GOING TO SINK IN? WHERE ARE THE STOREFRONTS THAT WILL APPEAL TO THE VISITORS AND NOT JUST THE LOCALS - WE ALREADY KNOW WHERE EVERY STORE IS!
Art....Crawl back into your hole and pay your tickets. I am only responding to other posts.
Nombe....Agree in part. It was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that were the real culprits and they were strongly supported in that effort by Sen. Dodd, Rep.Barney "I never met a male page I didn't like" Franks, Rep. Maxine Waters and that group.
I would completely agree that there were corrupt mortgage consultants/lenders AND real estate agents that were co-conspirators. But the real fault was in the FM twins following the directions of Congress.
While we now pay for the Econoline folks, if the 'terrorist' gets his way we will be providing free health care to every illegal on demand. I just can buy into that.
Thinker,
We're already providing free health care to every illegal on demand. We're also providing free health care to US Citizens who have no health insurance.
Zev,
GREAT post! It beautifully illustrates that tourists are not shopping in OV. There is nothing here for them to buy.
Thinker,
And that's why Lyra is a dunce!
Getting back to the point....
The General Plan is a document that is radified by the CITIZENS. The Plan is to "...provide basic direction and guidance to all elected officials...." The Plan has many statements that state that the CITIZENS desires are for: dark skies, minimal light pollution, and control of light and glare.
The Code in question directs the turning off of Wall Signs only. Monument signs and Directional signs provide advertising, and parking lot/landscape lights are there for safety.
The business and Chamber really should have no complaints. This Code was in place prior to their establishment. How many business owners are actually residents of Oro Valley?
Turning off Wall signs one hour after a business closes is not going to adversly affect a business, in fact, it might save them some money on their utility bill.
Business has a right to appeal our Code to the Council. The Council has to weigh the desires of the non-resident business owners with the desires of the Oro Valley CITIZENS. This should be a no brainer.
Once again the posters on this blog think they are the only citizens. Zinkin is a perfect example of that. HE is the only one complaining about the issue. Not one other citizen registered a complaint. Therefore it would seem logical that the majority of the citizens of this community felt the lit signs were OK.
The twenty or so bloggers who chat back and forth on this blog are not a fair representation of the general population of Oro Valley.
And I might add, some of these business owners that most of you continue to slam ARE CITIZENS of Oro Valley.
Cox--- This next election will prove once again you speak with a forked tongue.
If you think Mike Zinkin does not speak for the overwhelming majority, you'll once again be proven to look like a fool.
How many times do you need to be wrong before you learn to keep your mouth shut?
You and your ilk are few and far between!!
Thinker, your logic is flawed. Even if there were no REGISTERED complaints does not mean that therefor the majority of the townspeople are okay with the 'lit sign' ordinance being 'adjusted'. You have just flunked 'Logic 101'as well as the fact that you have ZERO FACTS to back your ill-advised GUESS. Thought you were a 'fact man' OVOT; in this case you have no facts, no knowledge (about what signs are for), and you have no logic in your conclusion; three strikes, YOUR OUT!
I've had a chance to do some serious networking in my short three years here in OV, and I can tell you based on my experiences OVOT could not be further from the truth when he states the bloggers on this site are in the minority in their way of thinking.
A lot of people in this town are not involved in the daily happenings, and when they do find out a matter will have a negative impact on them it is usually to late for them to do anything.
OK, Art don't get carried away with this statement...but one might consider this blog the "Paul Revere" of the Oro Valley community. I get a lot of information from this site on what is happening in OV.
Last but not least National politics needs to be kept off of this blog! Extreme statements from the left and right do nothing but bog this blog down and there are most likely other blogs that deal with national matters.
Today it is my want to find a place that sells 'gizmos'. I go to the yellow pages and find three places in Town that sell 'gizmos'. Next, I go to my 'search engines' to further check my findings. Voila, the 'web' confirms that there are three places that do, in fact, sell 'gizmos' in town, two of these 'gizmo' sellers have web sites and list their products; so I now narrow my quest to these two as the other might be a 'pig in a poke'. One of the 2 is listed as being located at 2001 Oracle Highway, the other is listed as being at 1984 Orson Welles Blvd. So I set out on my search. Back and forth I go (IN DAYLIGHT) looking for 1984 Orson Blvd. and/or 2001 Oracle Road. Lo and behold - few of the business have street numbers posted on their
storefronts, so I have to drive around and around looking for these places. Finally I find the one at 2001 Oracle ROAD; it's sign is in a tight script, light yellow against a light sand background - unreadable from beyond 2 feet. Then I go on to find 1984 Orson Welles Blvd. I drive around and around for that one also. Finally, after going around the 'merry-go-round' I find it tucked way back in the corner of a small strip center. The strip center has no address identifying it nor does the storefront have a 'suite' number. The sign is in a 16 font size and is done up in ariel round bold italic type; it simply contains the last name of the person who owns the operation 'SMITH'S'.
So, what's wrong with this picture?
THINK ABOUT IT.
OVOT - you stated that "codes that are archaic need to be revised to reflect current conditions"; would you say the same thing about the Constitution of the United States which, in essence, is a code, with 'parts', that formats the basis of our Country's ideology and 'way of life'? There are some that aver that the Constitution should be a 'living' document and therefor subject to 'easy' change; with your political bent, I would venture a guess that you are not one of those who believe this.
There is a process, albeit a difficult one, for amending the US Constitution, a purposefully difficult process in order to restrain the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative branches of our government from 'toying' with it. I'll bet that you believe that these branches ARE 'toying' with our Constitution and I'd bet that you are ticked over it.
Oh, of course this 'sign thing' is of a different ilk, so, as you are FOR 'toying' with the ordinance that governs, then it's okay, even if it's just a simple 'done' deal by 'acclimation'. If YOU were NOT FOR it, then YOUR song would be different.
OVOT, I find many inconsistencies
in your thinking, influenced by a strong bias towards business and development and a bit flip towards those who came here to simply enjoy the beauty of our surround, a beauty that has been marred by a wall(s), a reckless approach to the citizen approved 'General Plan', helter-skelter storefront placement, a tax 'generosity' towards certain development or business entities, toying with the applications of the AZ Constitution, and so on. We, the People have been hurt time and time again by the loose cannons within our Community trustees; AND, IT APPEARS THAT THE BEAT GOES ON!
You, OVOT, need to either proclaim your faith in OUR Plan and OUR ordinances AND the Rule of Law, OR admit your proclivity towards self-interest anarchy. OR, are you just another faux conservative with a Republican nameplate? What
exactly are you anyway?
Above word 'acclimation' should have been 'acclamation' - sorry
One other thing, who is the decider as to whether or not an ordinance is "archaic" (stated by OVOT as fact)- the blogger who said so, a special interest group, Town Council (majority or super majority), or a vote of the People who reside in the Town?
Thinker,
Regarding your comment, "As soon as lights go out in a business it is an indication that they are closed and more subject to burglers."
So if a hair salon leaves its light on all night, the burglar will assume that it's open at 2 AM and not break in?
Burglars know that businesses are closed overnight whether a sign is lit up outside the door or not. Signs are NOT lit during the day, so why aren't burglars breaking in during the day, assuming that an unlit sign means the establishment is closed.
The only thing tourists or locals would be looking for at midnight would be a gas station or convenience store. They're not looking for a hair salon, a dentist or a jewelry store at that hour.
As for increased sales taxes, you said, "Sales tax may increase if the business gains new customers because people now know where they are located."
So they can't find these places during the day? If they look them up in a phone book or on the internet, they will find out where they're located.
There are reasons that I do not patronize certain businesses and none of them have to do with signage. Some do not have convenient parking. Some refuse to turn the A/C on even on the hottest days. I have walked out of many stores because of this problem. If they really want me to buy something, they need to make the surroundings comfortable. The more comfortable it is, the longer I'll stay and the more likely I'll be to purchase something. I've walked out of restaurants for the same reason. I've not returned to some businesses because of rude or incompetent staff. THESE are the kinds of things that can make or break a business, not whether they have a sign lit up at midnight or 3 AM.
VC, so right you are! In addition there are 2 things that will assure proper security for a business; they are called alarms and police patrols; the latter should be plentiful after all of the hoopla surrounding the budget justifications. As to the rest of your personal reasons, I could add a whole bowlful of experiences but yours should suffice.
VC, if someone believes that black is red and digs in his or her heels, adamantly and blindly defending said stance, there is no 'operation' in existence that can make them see for they are truly blind in thought.
Zev....I am not sure of your qualification on the subject also. All I know is that 0, nada no compalints were registered other than Mr. Zinkin's. That my friend is fact.
FTT....You get only Art's news. That is not necessarily factual. He does stumble on a truth every now and then in spite of himself.
Cox once again speaks without saying anything.
In this case, my news was reporting the idiotic position enunciated by Lyra Done on behalf of the NPCCC.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier:
Any council member that votes to allow "dusk to dawn" lighting, deserves to be an ex-council member!
Thinker,
Zev makes some excellent points. It does seem to me that when someone does something that is AGAINST an ordinance/law and you are in agreement with what they did, then you think the ordinance/law should be changed...
But if the rest of us complain (for example) about something that a developer did to a parcel of land, you will say that he had every right to do it and that he did not violate any ordinance/law.
It does seem like you are trying to have it both ways. You are ALWAYS on the side of the business owner, even when they are violating an ordinance.
As Zev also mentioned, I also think that the business community is rather flippant towards the residents who came here to enjoy the beautiful surroundings.
Lights on until 10 PM isn't good enough for them even though they close at 5 PM. Now they want lights on until 5 or 6 AM. Next year they'll be asking for flashing neon signs.
OVOT, as 'logic', based on my personal experiences, research, and other sources of knowledge, is my companion, you should be sure, by now, that I do have some STRONG qualifications! If you cannot accept it, then that is your option as well as your dogma. I will put my own intermingling with others and hearing their objections and input against your
unbending adherence to a 'one-person-official-complaint mantra.
In addition, OVOT, please read my prior and subsequent posts; they tell a story of an Oro Valley that has gone awry. Business - it's related architecture (Sanofi-Aventis, an architectural abomination), toying with height limitations at the expense of homeowners, it's pushy business
attitudes, it's 'we're better than you' attitude towards the common folk, it's acceptance of the destruction of the picturesque qualities of the surround (THE WALL for example), it's mediocrity of goods and services. People start looking for places to live long before they move to them. I began my search 8 years ago. People spoke (past tense) of calm, of uninterrupted beauty, of hospitality potential, of a discerning citizenry with a positive attitude towards the future.
What happened? IS THIS IS A TOWN OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! Some of us are trying to salvage a bit of what is left and the numbnuts just don't seem to get it - book smart(?) snobs with a lack of common sense. There are many of them who condemn the perverse 'ideal' of entitlement on the 'left'; What about the entitlement that you on the right expect?
ce again the artski thinks he should be running Oro Valley. The only thing larger than his ego is the void between his ears.
Once again....
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