As we noted in a previous posting, March 4 Oro Valley Council Meeting--- Utility Tax On Agenda The Feb. 25 Explorer reports that the issue of the Oro Valley Utility Tax is on the March 4 council agenda.
Bill Garner is quoted in The Explorer article as saying: “I’m not going to support any new taxes. I’m going to support the sun-setting of the utility tax. The utility tax should not be used for recurring expenses.”
On the other hand, not at all surprising, Mayor Loomis & Council Member Kunisch who voted "yes" on this tax in 2006 (the other two "yes' votes were Parish & Dankwerth, both of whom were soundly defeated in their re-election bids) are eager to support the continuation of this unnecessary & unwanted tax on the citizen's necessities---Gas, Water & Electricity.
Kunisch is quoting as saying: “I haven’t heard one person come to me and say it’s a burden on them.”
Perhaps Mr. Kunisch should read this blog, where more than 50% of the responses to our poll question, said, "Let The Utility Tax Expire."Majority Respond To Our Poll: Let Utility Tax Expire On 4/1/09
Read The Explorer article here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/02/25/news/doc49a489f0b6b11809841533.txt
33 comments:
Of course he does. What he doesn't realize is the erosion of the town without it. Already some twenty plus town jobs are on the chopping block on ¾. With this tax going away, that number could double. City of Tucson, here we come…..it’s just sad
Mayor Loomis & Council Member Kunisch who voted "yes" on this tax in 2006 are eager to support the continuation of this unnecessary & unwanted tax on the citizen's necessities---Gas, Water & Electricity. UNECESSARY, are you kidding me. Gonme will be the town services we've come to rely on as Town jobs disappear. Come on Art, where is the money going to come from, to support our town??? Bring some viable options to the council so they won't have to vote on cutting town jobs at our expense.
Since Kunisch said he will vote to continue the utility tax because, "I haven't heard one person come to me and say it's a burden on them" might I suggest that the 74 people who voted on the LOVE site poll to let the tax expire, please send an e-mail to Councilman Kunisch and tell him that the utility tax has been a burden on you and your family.
He should be receiving 74 e-mails within the next few days. Then he will no longer be able to use that excuse.
Me while, the majority of THIS council approved just a few months ago, over a $30,000 pay package for the Town manager, David Andrews and now jobs are going to be cut. What leadership......
Victorian Cowgirl....74 e-mails out of how many tens of thousands of residence? This tax disappearing, will change the whole scope of how our town will operate and serve its citizens. If the town employees start disappearing, so will our town…..and no, I’m not an employee….it’s just sad, very, very sad….
Irked,
I realize it's only 74 e-mails out of 40,000 citizens, but if you've been following this site for the past year, you'd know that the LOVE site polls usually end up reflecting the wishes of the majority of the town. For example, the Naranja Town Park poll showed that the readers of this site were against the park and when it came to a town vote, the park bond failed.
So I suspect that if 53% of the readers of this site are against keeping the utility tax, then the majority of voters in OV are also against it.
Yes, but they probably didn't know when polled, so many Town jobs and services were being cut, partially with the removal of this tax. If that story was fully known, I'm sure the poll would have gone completely the other way. Otherwise, they wouldn't have cared what services were left nor who was laid off
Dear "irked citizen"---- Do you have inside information as to all these job cuts you allude to? The Council recently voted a hiring freeze. I don't recall "job cuts" being part of that vote.
Furthermore, do you know the rationale behind this tax?
It was to hire additional personnel---mainly police.
The reason there is a sunset clause for this tax is because it was designed as a "one time" deal, not to continue for however long.
I'll reiterate one other point, Besides Loomois & Kunisch, the other two votes on a 4-3 vote passing this ill-conceived tax, were defeated in their re-election bid.
Don't be surprised if the same fate doesn't await our illustrious mayor & councilman in 2010!
I have to admit that I haven't really noticed the tax.
I understand that nobody likes taxes, but when we call town hall or the police department, we expect someone to answer the phone and take care of our problems.
If people end up using less electricity and gas and water because they don't want to pay as much tax, then maybe that's a good thing.
Oro Valley charges tourists 8% on a hotel room. And yet, we want more tourism. On the other hand, we want people to use less water, electricity, and gas, and we only charge a 2% tax on that. And we're complaining.
Oro Valley needs a stable source of revenue. Sales taxes on consumer goods are not stable, because in a down economy, people can buy less, buy elsewhere, buy online, etc. But the cost of electricity, gas, and water will always go up, and people can't go elsewhere for it. It's also good if people use less of it. So at this point, I think it's a good idea for Oro Valley to maintain the utility tax.
Art-
Check your own posting of the Council March 4th agenda. The item is called "reduction in force", in laymens terms layoffs. It's very real and most likely going to happen, with or without the utility tax.
Irked Citizen, is it my responsibility to continue to fund that which is most likely a
bloated bureaucratic entity which just happened to burgeon during the 'good' years? This is a Town that somehow got the idea that it was THE Town of the future and pursued it's pie-in-the-sky self-deception with a vengeance. As I stated in a prior post, the beauty that it had taken nature millions of years to create here, has taken just a few short years for us humans to desecrate it.
I came to this area several years ago with a belief that I could retire here and no one and nothing could ruin my rest and relaxation here. Aside from my cost of living increases to the tune of about $5-6000/ year (including utility fees, property tax increases, etc.)
what I also got was 'The Great Wall of Oro Valley' currently being constructed along Oracle Road, roads widened and incorporated to an extent that Oro Valley most probably will become an eventual major traffic fiasco, I got an architecturally 'canned' shopping center down the road from me within which I have to drive from one store to another because of of it's 'spread', a center which has pock-marked the 'skyline' with it's overly visible rooftop utility appliances, I got a Town that has an overwhelming amount of empty retail spaces, a lack of good restaurants, etc., etc., etc.; oh, but we have had and still have our share of supreme visionaries, like you, who seem to feel that Oro Valley should somehow retain a 'perpetual motion' concept.
Got news, Irked Citizen, our Country is in a financial mess, this State is in a financial mess, this County is in a financial mess; hopefully, our Council, our Town can put a stop to our own ills - RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW!
Virtually every other entity in this country, governments, large business, small businesses, etc. are having to cut goods, services, and personnel; FAMILIES are having to cut wants AND needs - so, why do you think we need a separate set of rules here?
Irked Citizen, you need to get real and wake up! Start learning about real economics and the potential for financial implosion and stop groveling in your own self-indulgence. Then, you just might survive.
As a final note - as one who had worked for 43 years, scrapping for jobs, building businesses from zero, helping to support my family (my wife worked for those same amount of years that I did), fluctuating from the good times to the bad times, I now enjoy the fruits of my efforts (hopefully they might last) - I OWE YOU ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
Zev and Art,
Points are taken and I'm not asking for anything except you realizing that living in our wonderful community of the Town of Oro Valley and expecting “pie in the sky“ living for nothing, who are you kidding. Layoffs are real!!! Services you will not be getting are real!!! Turning into the City of Tucson will happen as our town government disappears. I’d hate to see your retiring years regretting that you moved to OV because the lack of revenue to continue (quit looking back, what’s done is done) living the good life, disappears for the lack of community support thru us and our council.
YOU OWE ME NOTHING AND THE TOWN YOU LIVE IN, WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO GIVE!!!!
Art, for clarification, how did KC vote back then for this tax? Thanks
FINAL Note to Zev....the great wall you refer to has nothing to do with the town and reduction in government, are you kidding me, this great stimulus package all but increases government jobs to more than ever thou it probably won't trickle down to us in a long time or ever. Private sector is dying, not big government is not. I hope, like you, our town government and council can put a "stop to it right here and now." Yes, all money needs to be looked at and from every angle. But the town you moved to to retire, the expectations that have been set for your retirement here and the town of our future, WILL be 2 different things so don’t complain on the other end, when the services you have come to expect, not be there for you to use anymore. Get use to it and don’t complain when it happens, since it will happen.....just very sad....
Sorry Art, my posting heading "Zev and Art" is for mostly Zev....
OV Citizen - appreciate your follow up commentary. I first visited Oro Valley 8 years ago - it was BEAUTIFUL! I moved here 3-1/2 years ago - it was NICE! I live here now - it's becoming GROTESQUE! Where have you lived that makes you think Oro Valley has excelled in it's progress? Citizen, I do not deny the validity of YOUR perception and I respect it, but perhaps you need to wake up and smell the farts, too.
Zev, you are right and we, about the same time frame. I know though, once I leave the OV borders, things are still much worse and I'd really hate to see the borders of OV erode to point to we’re not sure where OV borders starts and Tucson ends. I as you, don't want to continuing loosing what we have but the fact is this council is voting on taxes, layoffs, and reorganization 3/4/09 per the town agenda. With that fact, we have to live with their vote and if that means layoffs, reduction in taxes, etc., we cannot spew on the other end, “what’s happen to our town”….”where did the services go” …. “why did I move here”
No, it’s not perfect but certainly much better than most other places. I’d rather fight and try to at least keep what we have then just say “ it is what it is” and live with it…
OV Citizen,
Regarding your comment, "I’d rather fight and try to at least keep what we have then just say “ it is what it is” and live with it…"...
I've been here for 5 years. In that time I (along with various residents in town) have fought 4 different developers because I want to keep what we have. We won 3 of the 4 fights. Of course the one we lost was The Great MALL of China (now located across from the Great WALL of China!)
I have just begun fighting the 5th developer who wants to destroy this beautiful town by changing the General Plan to allow a rezoning from low density to high density. It never ends.
Like Zev, I moved here for peace and quiet. I wanted to relax and enjoy my life for a change. But, ironically, if I want to keep my peaceful existence, I must fight every day of my life to keep it. There is no peace.
I'm not sure what services you keep referring to that we've all come to expect that we're going to lose without the 2% utility tax. I already pay a separate tax for fire service. I pay an association fee for trash pick-up. And Cyclone-1 stated that the lay-offs will happen even WITH the utility tax. I believe Cyclone because I know this person knows a lot about the inner workings of the Town.
Quite frankly, there are people on the town staff who are grossly overpaid, people who've worked there for years and STILL don't know how to do their jobs. If the town wants to save money, they should fire those people and bring in new people at lower salaries.
Victorian Cowgirl, point taken and you shouldn't have to fight like this...it's truly sad.
We moved to OV 5 years ago and we were born and raised in Arizona. OV was and still is a beautiful place, minus some of things like the great wall that you mentioned. The town needs positive revenue streams thou and they are all drying up….the longer and more it dries, the less of a town we’ll have with no money to support it. Yes, like everywhere else, there are folks as you stated who are overpaid, under utilized, etc. That’s why THIS council agreed to a $30k pay increase to the town manager, David Andrews just a few months ago, to continue taking care of business. Hypothetically thou, do you really think it’s the long time, overpaid workers that are going to be taking the hit, really? It’s happening no matter what and we’ll just have to see how the reduction in the town staff and services are really going to affect its citizens. Like Art’s other article on the Town pool and lack of budget, it may dry up as well.
Citizen et al:
First let me say that I believe that the commentary in this stream has been spoken with a great deal of feelings about our Town. We may have different ideas as to some of the hows, some of the ways, and some of the means but I think we all want for a 'comfortable' place to live.
The following is an example as to how a governmental department ,if creative and smart, CAN reduce costs when put to the wall:
In 1990 my wife was hired as a budget coordinator for the County of Wake in North Carolina. At the time of her hire the Budget Department consisted of a Budget Director (under the County Manager), 2-1/2 Budget Analysts, and my wife, the Budget Coordinator. When times got slow several years later, the word 'cut' got thrown out there and EVERY department had to scrutinize
personnel, job descriptions, duties, equipment, and so forth. Now, just in my wife's department alone it was decided that THE Department could probably function with 1-1/2 fewer BUDGET ANALYSTS (at a savings of about $120,000 per year). Guess what? By working closer, by working smarter, by expanding responsibilities, and WITHOUT ADDING MORE HOURS, the budget process and final compilations actually improved over previous years and received national awards for their results.
A MORAL HERE: Working smarter and leaner CAN, in fact, outperform working the fat!
VC-
While there is a proposal to cut staff developed under the assumption that the utility tax does not sunset, it's only going to be worse if the utility tax goes away. Right now, according to reports, thre are about 30 jobs on the chopping block. Without the 1.2 million the ut brings in, I can't imagine that number won't increase. So, things are not good either way, but is it really smart to eliminate a source of revenue right now? Particularly when it will mean an even greater reduction in services than the Town is already contemplating?
In response to "OV Citizen" and any others interested---- KC Carter, Paula Abbott & Barry Gillaspie voted "NO" on the 3rd try which finally passed for a 2% Utility Tax to subsidize the hiring of new personnel, when the original budget did not have a provision for this.
As I previously noted, besides Loomis & Kunisch, the defeated Dankwerth & Parish voted "yes."
This tax was ill conceived in the first place, and deserves to be terminated.
We'll see what happens at the March 4 council vote.
ERROR ALERT
In my previous post I stated that when my wife became a Budget Coordinator there were 2-1/2 Budget Analysts; actually there were
3-1/2. The end result however was that the number was cut by 1-1/2 analysts as I also stated. So the end result remains 'as is' .
Irked Citizen, unfortunately when times are tough, jobs get cut. Do you think this is the first time in our history that people are losing jobs?
Some of us remember the belt tightening of the past, some may have lost jobs as the economy contracted in the past. History repeats itself.
As a taxpayer, I am against the town keeping employees hired just because town officials don't want to fire or layoff people. It may seem "mean" but I expect the town to be "lean" and cut out un-needed expenses.
During a crisis time; the town should be focused on only keeping necessary services running. Fluff has to go.
raindancer
OV Citizen:
My comment about The Wall was simply an illustration as to the continuing degradation of the beauty of of Oro Valley - had nothing to do with who or what was responsible for it.
As to cuts in services, tell me what they will be. Cyclone1, perhaps you can do so. Give us a list. Tell us why virtually every business, every household must do some 'cutting' in times like this, yet many governments insist they should be exempt. Tell us why most governments throughout our country are accepting this necessity but you seem not to be able to. I gave all of you a good example as to what CAN be achieved when the 'cuts' have to be made. I have not seen any rebuttals, philosophical or otherwise!
YOU who know so much, let us in on your secrets.
Zev,
No secrets held here. Everything I know I know because I have read it in the paper or on the Town's website. All I am trying to say is that we have good roads, good parks, good police and a very responsive local government. It's hard to belive that can be sustained if you cut 15% of the staff. As I said, even with the utility tax the Town is looking to lay off about 30 people; without it that number will probably double. I don't disagree that there are always ways to increase efficiency, and more bodies don't necessarily mean better work, but I can't help but think that having more folks out there without jobs is a good thing. And as much as people love to point out those who are not, many Town employees are residents too - so your neighbor may be out of job next week. I think the utility tax should be kept in place not just to retain staff, but I just think it is crazy to voluntarily cut of a reltively steady source of revenue when all the others are drying up.
Quick correction:
...but I can't help but think that having more folks out there without jobs is NOT a good thing.
Cyclone1,
As usual your comments are thoughtful, well communicated and well formulated. My problem here is that by extending the utility tax, as an EXAMPLE, we are merely putting a small band-aid on a large gash. Yes, Oro Valley needs help, but for the meanwhile, it needs to slow down, sit back, take a deep breath, and TOTALLY rethink it's place, purpose, and it's 'how-to-get-there' aspects. From the view of it's past meandering and helpless path, it is my firm belief that a certain type of financial influx of money in perpetuity is sorely needed; and, yes, I might get killed for saying so, but that influx must be in the form of a type of property tax. In this day and age, no town can exist on the presumption of building fees, sporadic utility taxes, unbridled growth, or whatever else one can think of. Most of us came from places where we paid property taxes and would still have moved here if there had been one in existence here too. It's time for a REAL reality check, not just a delusionary bowl of hocus pocus.
Why not compromise?
Cut the 2% tax to 1 %
I will gladly pay a 1% tax for another year to help out my town.
I would expect the town to gladly let me keep the 1% reduction to demonstrate that our local government is fully aware that times are hard for many of our neighbors.
While we are talking sacrifice, I encourage all the HOAs, and their satanic "managment companies" to cut all fees, dues and charges by 10%.
nombe.
Everyone,
I would still like to know SPECIFICALLY which 30 jobs are on the chopping block and SPECIFICALLY what town services will be reduced or eliminated.
Having this information would go a long way in helping all of us understand whether or not the continuation of the U.T. is necessary.
I also like Nombe's idea of the 1% compromise.
Nombe and VC - a compromise and then what? VC, I, like you, would like a list of services/positions that might be on the chopping block - are those services/positions absolutely necessary? Incidentally, just as an example AND with ALL due respect to our police force, how come I see so many idle police cars simply languishing around in the parking lot(s)?
I will still maintain that, just like the need for sustainable water, energy, etc., we need a sustainable and relatively constant and controlled source of income for operating expenses (without using same for
over-the-top parks, frills, parties, travel, and so on); unfortunately my experience tells me that only a real estate property tax, in some form, can be the answer. Otherwise we will be forever scrambling around in a hit or miss fashion in order to keep the dike from continually springing leaks.
I've never understood the need for all those extra police. In a conversation I had with an OV police officer in 2007, he said that he wished citizens would call the police whenever they see something suspicious and not be afraid that they are going to bother them with something that turns out to be nothing because, "most of the time I'm just driving around looking for something to do."
So somebody needs to inform us (1) what positions are heading for layoffs, (2) what services are about to be cut, and (3) exactly why did we need to hire more police officers?
Zev....
"...it's becoming GROTESQUE!
You should be ashamed...but I'll write it off as a spur of the moment emotional comment!!!
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