Saturday, May 3, 2008

WLB Meeting With Oro Valley Residents--Re: General Plan Amendment

Kathy Pastryk attended the May 1 meeting with WLB representing the Kai Property. Kathy was good enough to take notes and forward them for dissemination to our neighbors. Thanks Kathy.
Note: Kathy mentioned residents by name. I opted to delete specific names.
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Meeting on The Kai Property – May 1st

WLB, an engineering firm out of Tucson, are planners and landscape architects who have represented the Kai Family, owners of the property, for many years. They have worked in the Tucson area for many years with Westcor, Vestar and other developers.

The 271 acre Kai property extends from Tangerine Road south to Naranja on the east side of 1st Avenue. It is bisected by Palisades Avenue.

Catalina Shadows HOA sent out a two page informational sheet to all of their residents after residents demanded their right to know exactly what was might be coming our way.

On April 29, WLB’s Rob Longaker escorted nine residents on a “walk-thru” of the property. Immediately afterwards, emails were circulated in Cat Shadows and Palisades South subdivisions and even beyond, forewarning residents that an amendment to OV’s General Plan was being sought. The change would permit a senior continuing care facility with a parking lot and lighting that could be reminiscent of Splendido. WLB would like more commercial buildings with heights up to 34 feet. They also want to grade – or somehow flatten out the hilly, partially riparian land exempting slopes of over 25 degrees. WLB sent a detailed full-color map that residents received in their mail on April 30.

The May 1st meeting between the neighbors and WLB was scheduled to be held in the Hopi Room at the Town Complex, but it was transferred to Council Chambers because of the numbers of attendees which was estimated at more than 200 including the Mayor and all council members except for Terry Parish.

The meeting was conducted by Pat Klein, of OV constituent services. Bayer Vella, Principal Planner of OV, spoke on the General Plan and the process of amending it, following which Paul Oland & Rob Longaker of WLB described what the kind of development WLB wants.

Some of the vague phraseology was familiar to residents who still processing and coping with their Vestar experience. Instant déjà vu was produced by hearing that “A series of meetings is scheduled so we can’t really answer that…” and “a Neighborhood Leadership Group may be formed…” This will lower the density because “clustering of buildings in pockets of higher density will allow more open space… Also, “building heights are difficult to determine as we’re dealing with a depressed site…” and more. Buildings, they revealed could turn out to be two story town homes or apartment buildings.

During a prolonged Question and Answer, dismayed residents demonstrated that they are not only wary – but they are weary -- of the process -- of being asked to donate hour after hour of our time to earnest land use discussions and decisions -- only to have them renegotiated again and again…

What particularly concerned many citizens was that The General Plan was rather painstakingly revised almost five years ago during which an agreement was reached specifying low density single family homes

On 3 acre properties. Audience members recalled a golf course that was proposed, and one man remembered that equestrian areas were to be created “to celebrate the Western-ness of Tucson.”

A Cat Shadows resident requested that WLB reps come prepare to the next meeting prepared to specifically define some of their terminology such as “continuum of care.” He also called upon Mayor Loomis who led the charge to defeat the construction of apartments in his own home turf fo speak up for open space.

The public also served notice that we know what we want and intend to stick to our convictions…that we value desert land, the hill and riparian areas and do not want to see them leveled.

A resident told the WLB reps that we’d been “bamboozled by Vestar” and wouldn’t let that happen again. Another resident asked why we should allow an amendment “just so they can make money.”

Roadways were discussed and the audience found out that as many as three road onto Palisades are planned along with a road onto First Ave. and one onto Tangerine. rep Asked to explain, WLB's Longaker said that they had been informed that Palisades is to be a major 4-lane thoroughfare. That met with many rebukes and questions from the audience.

Council member Paula Abbott asked WLB to prepare a power point presentation that would better illustrate exactly what they are planning.

Additional meetings are coming up where community input will be sought, The principals will attempt to wear us down, but we can prevail, so let’s hang in there.

The next meeting required by law, a Planning and Zoning Hearing, will be held on July 10 to be followed by a second “Neighborhood Meeting” on July 31. A second P & Z meeting will be scheduled, date to be decided.

On November 19 the Town Council will hear all sides and vote on whether to approve the proposed amendment. A super majority of 5 votes will be required for approval of a General Plan amendment – so be sure to follow closely, attend as many meetings as possible, talk to your friends and neighbors, and contact council members to tell them how you feel about The Kai Property.

Kathy Pastryk

13 comments:

Victorian Cowgirl said...

I attended the WLB-Kai Property meeting. It was a standing-room only crowd. Of interest was that although this property has nothing to do with Vestar or Wal-Mart or OV Marketplace, each resident who got up to speak made reference to those very things. They let the WLB Group and the Mayor know, in no uncertain terms, that they are "mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore!"

I call this the "Vestar Fall-Out." And I'm glad it's happening. I'm glad the Vestar fiasco has "legs" and never again will any developer take advantage of Oro Valley citizens.

WLB left a flyer on the back table for residents to use to offer their comments and mail back to them. The top of the sheet says, "The thoughts/ideas/concerns of the neighbors are important as we plan this property for future use." Gee...those are the very same words that Vestar used to make us think they cared about us.

So to the Kai family and the WLB Group and everyone else who is or will be involved in this project, take note...you are in for the fight of your lives and you have Vestar to thank for it.

Well done, Vestar.
Well done, Mayor Loomis.

Bet you never saw this coming.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

One more thing. One citizen who spoke at the meeting mentioned how Paul Loomis (prior to becoming Mayor) fought to keep an apartment complex from being built across the street from HIS home.

Yes, and that's the only time he fought to protect the view and the surroundings of anyone in this town.

OV Objective Thinker said...

It's too bad Ms. Pastryk could not have submitted notes rather than an editorial.

I talked to several people who attended this meeting and the most common word used to describe it was "rude".

Let's keep in mind that the property owners have the right to develop the property. It would seem to me that those folks who have an interest would be better served making an attempt to get the property owner to develop it in a reasonable, beneficial manner.

I believe some concessions could have been realized from Vestar if a different approach had been taken in the process.

Just my thoughts.

artmarth said...

Don Cox writes---"Let's keep in mind that the property owners have the right to develop the property."

My response: Let them develop within the guidelines of the General Plan. You seem to forget the citizens have rights too.

As to your comment; "I believe some concessions could have been realized from Vestar if a different approach had been taken in the process," all I can say is "you 'gotta' be kidding!"

Finally----Kathy Pastryk did a service for our readers by giving a great synopsis of the meeting. Our readers should not be surprised you found fault in her outstanding report.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Thinker,

So you heard that the citizens were "rude." Why shouldn't we be? Look what happens when we're nice and we believe what developers tell us, and we believe them when they say they want our input. We get a Wal-Mart shoved down our polite little throats! As I said, the Vestar thing has "legs." No one should have been surprised by what they witnessed at that meeting.

And you think Vestar would have made concessions if we had approached it differently? Just how should we have approached it? What EXACTLY should we have done?

The only thing that I think would have made Vestar offer concessions is if our Town Council had stood up to them the way the Stockton, CA council did.

But you seem to have some other brilliant ideas. What are they?

mscoyote said...

Thinker,
The meek shall inherit the earth, but
it won't help in dealing with developers.
Of course the owner of the property has the right to develop his land.
Who is stopping him? Let the owner follow the rules or the existing zoning.
Personally I think the developer is rude for assuming that they can just walk all over the residents.
People are sick and tired of all this wheeling and dealing just so a developer or builder gets a bigger profit. The guy that said that is telling it like it is, sometimes somebody needs to.
Citizens have the right to be assertive when they see a continual disregard for the zoning and the current residents and their homes and neighborhoods.
People here in OV have been too "nice" and have gotten the short end too many times.
Maybe this time the residents will rebel!! I sure hope so.

OV Objective Thinker said...

The three responses are a perfect example of what I spoke about in my post. Rather than discuss and come up with a plan that is acceptable to all parties, the anti’s are going to be rude, intolerant and argumentative. That always works!!! NOT!!!

You asked my opinion of what we could have done differently with Vestar. We could have used a more level-headed approach and not filed legal action. It had no chance of passing and served only to alienate and delay. The time spent in that failed plan could have been spent discussing concerns and making an attempt to get a different anchor. But once you file legal action all casual conversation ceases. As it turned out Vestar was put in a corner and took the path of least resistance in order to get bricks and mortar out of the ground to meet their timelines. I don't know if anything would have changed. At least you could have been able to look back and say we gave it our best shot and not walked away with a bloody nose.

Property owners have the right to develop their land and request zoning/general plan changes. Expressing opposition is one thing, being obnoxious and rude is not called for and only gives "legs" to those who think Oro Valley is populated by a bunch of elitists.

Problems and differences are solved through discussion, give and take and being open minded. Some day I hope this historically proven concept is adopted by the anti-people.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Thinker,

What legal action against Vestar are you referring to?

Richard Furash, MBA said...

WLB has the right to develop the property within current guidelines. That's it. No amendments please, council.

mscoyote said...

Thinker
If by legal action against Vestar you mean the Initiative , don't you agree with our constitution and laws of our state?
That we have the right as citizens to participate in the Initiative and Referendum process is something I hold precious.
You are WRONG in my opinion about that not having a chance to win or pass.
If Vestar had been upfront and honest, of course there would have have been a strong possibility it would have failed.
Vestar was never interested in what the residents wanted then nor are they interested now.
If Vestar had any intention of trying to compromise or discuss, they were free at any time to initiate this discussion.
Nope the refused to talk, refused to listen.
All Vestar cared about was
getting their hands on the potential of 23.3 million.
And if you think otherwise, you need to get a grip.
By the way I don't usually tell people they are wrong but on this one you are wrong.

OV Objective Thinker said...

Ms. Coyote...

I respect you opinion.

I do believe in our rights and I did support the initiative process. HOWEVER, once that legal action is initiated the parties involved simply cannot speak. I would have liked to see those opposed talk first and see what issues could have been mitigated.

The proof in the pudding will be how successful Oro Valley Marketplace turns out to be. I believe it will be very successful and at that time we will know it the majority of local folks supported the project. Until then, we can argue the pass/fail aspects all we want and there can be no resolution....other than the voters overwhelmingly supported it at the ballot box.....knowing that a Wal-Mart was a possibility.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Thinker,

If you're referring to SOVOG when you say that Vestar COULDN'T speak while THAT legal action was going on, well, what's their excuse for not speaking to OV1st? OV1st and SOVOG were two completely different entities and even though Malin stated that they would give periodic updates, they have REFUSED to give ANY updates at all. They never responded to any letters that OV1st sent them and Malin also refused to give an updated presentation at the town hall when he was asked by a council member to do so.

The referendum passed a long time ago so there is no more legal action. Vestar can no longer use that excuse for their silence and neither can you. So what's the REASON/EXCUSE now?

mscoyote said...

Cowgirl,
I have been asking the same question about Vestar and the update for too long and I never get a xxx answer!!

Yes I have even asked a certain council person that same question on this blog and that council person just will not answer.

In fact I am angry at all of them for not making Vestar accountable.

What the is the problem, why can't they ask and require an update?

This is BS.