This is not the first----and probably not the last time Mr. Jeff Arest, an Oro Valley resident has taken exception to our of writing.
Rather than respond, as I've done in the past, I thought I'd let those readers who see fit, to offer their comments to Mr. Arest's email.
Personally, I wonder why he continues to read our emails and Blog if it aggravates him as much as it appears.
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E Mail From Mr. Jeff Arest
Art, give it up!! You don't have a "new" question!!! You've been asking the same old one for years.Sad as you might see it, Oro Valley wouldn't exist were it not for "big developers." And some of us are not afraid of higher taxes in return for more services and higher property values as a result. The fact that you constantly mention the shortfall in revenue from retail centers in town, should clue you in to the fact that without "outrageous giveaways" we'd all be driving downtown to shop.
16 comments:
Mr. Arest is entitled to his "opinion" but he really should give it "a rest"! Big developers have NOT paid their fair share. They have not increased our property values--does Mr. Arest understand the word "inflation"?? Some developers have decreased our property values! He wants to pay more taxes for services....how about we have some frugal government management of assets so that we don't have to be taxed to death for services we can already afford IF fiscal responsibility were employed.
Can't some people get it through their heads: by virtue of THREE statutes in the Arizona Constitution, Economic Developement
Agreements are ILLEGAL period!!!Patronage potential, based on in-depth market research, should be enough for developers to either
get the right and profitable mix here or if they can't, get the hell out of Dodge.There are so many laws that have been broken for the purpose of one kind of development or the other in this supposedly up-scale, 'intelligent'
town that sometimes I think we reflect a society, that, as a whole, is simply breaking down into some kind of anarchistic facism; strong words, yes, but think about it.
Unless you plan on buying clothing from Wal Mart you will still need to drive to a mall, a real mall to buy clothing.
A lot of us are very happy with the services in Oro Valley. Personally I feel they more then meet our expectations.
What the heck more do you want?
Developers are mostly crooks. You know they are lying when their lips are moving! A joke but 98% truthful.
Jeff,
You say you're not afraid of higher taxes in return for more services and higher property values. Are you afraid of developers who promise you "upscale" and then deliver a Wal-Mart? You're worried about property value. Do you think WM and all of it's associated crime will increase your property value?
Are you afraid of developers who promise you that if you vote to approve their new mall that the enormous sales tax dollars generated from that mall will mean "No Property Taxes!" and then as soon as the mall referendum is passed, you're told that you will be getting a property tax after all?
The retail revenue shortfalls are constantly mentioned because they are another example of how we were promised one thing by developers and then given another.
If you want a lot of retail stores to be located very close to your home so that you don't have to "drive downtown to shop" then why didn't you buy a home that was closer to downtown?
I've asked this question many times but I never get an answer to it...
Why do people move to an out of the way place that is far removed from the traffic congestion and hustle and bustle of the city, and then immediately start complaining that they have to drive too far to do their shopping?
So, Mr. Jeff Arest, can YOU answer that question?
You either want to be surrounded by crowds and traffic and auto pollution or you want to be surrounded by nature and have peace and quiet. You can't have it both ways. So decide what you want and then move to that place.
Victorian Cowgirl - superbly put!
Notice he hasn't written back with an answer to my question. They never do!
Mr. Arest advised he doesn't know how to respond. I sent him this email.
"If you log on to our blog, you'll note, I posted your email that has received a number of comments, including looking for a response from you.
You're more than welcome to comment on this or any other posting. It's easy enough. Just follow the instructions we have on the site."
http://letorovalleyexcel.blogspot.com/
Following, is Mr. Arest's response
Art
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Unfortunately,Art I don't know how to respond to Victorian Cowgirl whoever she is. I love Oro Valley. I've made clear from my first E-mail that I was never in favor of a Walmart. My complaint is about all the ranting and raving about a great town. It's like you and a few others have too much time on your hands and like to take pot shots at every thing the Town has ever done.I still don't think we would have a movie complex and many of the stores we are getting and some we already have without some giveaways. Nordstroms isn't coming here. I read the blurbs from anonymous bloggers that you directed me to, and as I expected, they don't say very much. It simply costs big money to run a Town with the best schools in the area( including all of Tucson). This in turn is what raises our property values. I've owned homes in Oro Valley for twelve years, and seen them double in value, and then double again, in that period. My taxes have increased only marginally in the same years. Seems like a lot of living for a reasonable cost, with better services and better opportunities all the time. I don't really understand Cowgirls reply. I still love the Town, but like all beautiful Towns it's growing. I prefer to shop close to home as most people do. You don't have to give up beauty to do that, or peace and quiet. It doesn't mean no growth and no developers either. Anywhere! Maybe you should run for office and let others take the shots at you. You can feel free to publish this also, tho you didn't have the decency to ask my permission to go public with my name and my notes to you, in the first place. Jeff
From my standpoint, Mr. Arest speaks double talk. He says a lot, but says nothing: certainly not anything of substance.
It's hardly relevant, but, he writes:"I've owned homes in Oro Valley for twelve years, and seen them double in value, and then double again, in that period."
That would make a $100,000 home now worth $400,000, or one at $200K now worth $800K. Not bad. Has anyone else in Oro Valley seen that kind of appreciation.
The only thing that has gone close to that much in my 14 years here is my Fire Service Bill,my Taxes and my Utility Bills. Mr. Arest is one lucky guy!
Also, why would I want his permission to post his email to me?
Our readers can once again determine how much credibility Mr. Arest has.
Art
Mr Arest, dammit, giveaways are ILLEGAL - don't you get it? Are you saying 'to hell with the Arizona State Constitution'? Are you in mental company with one of the developers who, when advised of this illegality, shrugged his shoulders and muttered "so what". I can respect anyone who has an opinion that is diverse from mine, but I cannot respect someone who has little or no respect for laws, criminal or otherwise. Read the constitution Mr. Arest, read the reasons WHY there is a major litigation proceeding in Phoenix relative to a large 'giveaway' signed away by it's council to the benefit of a Chicago developer. Educate yourself, Mr. Arest and then, maybe, you just might be able to intelligently address the subject with us rather than simply dismissing it as being a result of our having 'too much time on our hands'; educate yourself, Mr. Arest, and when you do it is then that you can be a credible partner in discourse. In the meanwhile, please do not dignify baloney as valid argument.
Jeff,
You said you don't know how to respond to my question...why do people move to an out of the way place...and then immediately start complaining that they have to drive too far to do their shopping? That seems like a very straightforward question to me.
You said you've owned homes in Oro Valley for 12 years. Well, 12 years ago there was NOTHING here at all in the way of retail, so if you "prefer to shop close to home" why did you move to Oro Valley 12 years ago?
You said you don't have to give up beauty or peace and quiet in order to shop close to home. Well, the first thing a developer does is to bulldoze "the beauty" so yes you have to give that up. Just 5 years ago when I moved here, Oracle Road still had large stretches of land that were natural desert. In the past 5 years, all that beautiful land has been cleared and replaced with buildings and asphalt parking lots. We gave up the beauty to have nearby shopping.
And with all those new stores comes more traffic and more noise and more pollution. I don't know how you can think that the beauty and the peace and quiet will remain.
Drive down Oracle Road from here to Main Street. Do you see beauty and peace and quiet? Drive down Ina Road from Oracle to I-10. Do you see beauty and peace and quiet?
That is the point I am trying to make.
Also, I notice that whenever a person cannot debate an issue, they either resort to name-calling (we've been called CAVE people) or they resort to the old "you have too much time on your hands" reply.
Jeff, you sound like an intelligent person to me. I'm sure you can do better than that. And if you are against the Wal-Mart, then don't chastise the people who have the courage to speak up against it.
Have you signed the OV1st pledge?
Also, regarding the constant comments from those who oppose us that we have too much time on our hands...most people who have too much time on their hands spend that time commiting crimes or hanging out in bars. Would you prefer that we all do THAT instead? At least we use our time constructively!
But if everyone would prefer, maybe we'll all just wait for the Wal-Mart to open and we can all use our time hanging out in their parking lot targeting shoppers for purse-snatchings and other crimes.
Now all we need is an Oro Valley bar to hang out in afterwards!
To:victorian cowgirl...I never said i moved here 12 years ago. I bought my first home here 12 years ago,and yes there was little retail shopping at the time. But i was surely under no illusion that it wasn't coming. If you don't think OV is still beautiful, with enormous open natural desert spaces, you've got a problem! Drive down Speedway at almost any point, then turn around and drive back by any route to OV. You've got to be kidding!! I'll tell you what i resent. It's people who move here and then want to stop anyone else from moving in because things might change. And as for Art, maybe he hasn't got the good judgement to find agood buy and profit by it, but i stand by my figures for the property appreciation i had for the twelve years....Jeff
Jeff,
You continue to avoid the crux of reality; you divert your answers to less than viable argument, you still haven't answered the LEGALITY issue, you still can't or won't acknowledge 'how business should operate'. This country became a great economic institution not by corporate welfare, not by 'build it and they will come', but by 'find a need and fill it', hard work, market research, and INDIVIDUAL investment. You are still hacking away at Art and Cowgirl in a most dismissive manner and that, sir, is because you really do not have much to say.
manner
Zev, I hate to say it, but the litigation won't help. This kind of thing goes on all over the country.In any case it will be many years before issues like yours will be resolved. In the meantime revenues are enormously behind projections and in some ways that makes us lucky. If I were a retail developer and knew the true projections, I'd go elsewhere. These realities only support the notion that little development would go on without giveaways.Or do you have any evidence to the contrary?? Jeff
Art, the simple answer to your query of 11-16-07, is decency!!!!Perhaps if you weren't in such a hurry to grab some space in print on your blog, you would have considered someone elses' feelings as well as your own.In any case, iwouldn't publish an e-mail someone sent me, in a public forum, without giving that person the consideration of letting them know my intentions. Jeff
Jeff Arest is not afraid of higher taxes because he has made enough money from stealing from the school he worked in Pleasantville, NY. His brother and partner in crime Peter Arest is in a Federal Prison for stealing from his partners and tax evasion and Jeff Arest should have been in the same cell as his brother because his brother was his main client for the equipments and etc that Jeff stole from the Poor kids in that school. That is why he is not afraid of higher taxes and he purchased or build a new home in MA with the kickback payments from the contarctors and vendors from the school contracts he gave them.
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