The headline in the Sunday edition of the Az Daily Star says it all. The basis of their statement?
That's the unanimous opinion of 10 Southern Arizona law-enforcement officials interviewed by the Arizona Daily Star in the last two weeks.
Among the law enforcement officials interviewed was Pima County Sheriff, Clarence Dupnik. Our sheriff is quoted as saying: "Generally speaking, it's criminals killing criminals."
Our own ex council member, Terry Parish, who works for Sheriff Dupnik seems to disagree with his boss. A prolific blogger very recently, Parish is on record as telling us (and the OV council members) that we will suffer greatly as the Mexican drug cartel is all around us. (I'm paraphrasing)
If there are any of readers who are drug smugglers, which is very doubtful, they are the ones to worry. As the article points out, in Pima County, home invasions have increased. However, the robberies and home invasions share two characteristics. One, direct links to the drug cartels are tenuous; and two, nearly all of the victims are either criminals or people being smuggled.
Read the entire article here.
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/290317
48 comments:
Yeah, I read that article; chalk another one up for Parish.
I agree completely with the quote you provided from the Sheriff. However, frequently innocent people get caught in the crossfire, are misidentified and victimized or it's just criminals killing criminals. I guess in our wonderful country you think all of that is ok. I don't. I never said we would suffer greatly or otherwise. I have said this is one reason we need to keep our cops on the streets working so that violence doesn't come here regardless of whether or not the target is innocent or just a criminal.
At 0400 I was called out to investigate case 090426060 a home invasion where 3 men held a 13 year old girl at gunpoint so they could steal 2 plasma screen tvs and a laptop. Her brothers were gone and mom was giving a friend a ride to work when it went down. Not cartel violence, not drug related unless the suspects plan to sell the tvs for some but either way scary.
I don't ever want to see that type of violence come here.
Terry--- You have continued to use double talk since you involved yourself as the unofficial spokesperson for the Oro Valley police.
The last time you acted as a spokesperson, it was for Vestar, and the citizens see the result on that losing deal.
Your "scare tactics" are not working here. The police would be wise to "fire you" as their PR guy.
By the way, I'm sure your boss is happy to know you agree with him.
stating facts should not be seen as scare tactics. It is simply reality on display. We here in Oro Valley are very fortunate. Reminds me of a common bumpersticker "Thank a Cop". In recent years several have given their lives so we can be safe.
Hardesty, Hite, Graham, to name three. Within the last year OVPD had to shoot and ultimately kill a drug dealer to protect themselves.
Sounds to me like it really is all around us and sometimes it comes here already.
Once you get to a certain level in any agency , including law enforcement you might be required or directed by others with a political agenda to say or not say certain things. Not saying anybody is lying.
Also mention is made that these agencies are preparing for trouble just in case.
Keyword to me is preparing!
National politics could possibly be factored into some of the comments and opinions expressed in the article.
Terry, I don't think there is a reasonable person here in Oro Valley who does not recognize that there has been and should be good police work in order to HELP preserve the quality of our lives. Yes, we have heard a story here and a story there regarding single incidences of good police work and some of the dangers of it. What many of us have been trying to get across is not that we don't want it or don't need it, it has been the question of how much 'force' and 'accessories' are necessary to accomplish this goal and do it knowing that the community is a 'whole' and that our economy is tight. THAT issue of getting THAT answer has been consistently skirted and seemingly agendized and THAT, Terry, was NOT what the community wanted.
While you have somewhat denigrated the efforts of John Musolf and Councilmember Garner, (and in essence Chief Sharp, too) in their efforts to put heads together and come up with a viable solution, for the Community this was (is) a good thing. If we, for most of the Town, can get on the same page and deliver it, then this will help in bringing what is now a 'fractured' Town together.
I don't have a problem with the efforts of JM or the Chief. Regardless, of his current path I don't have any faith and cannot find a way to believe Garner. My view of his motives is that he is concerned with his political welfare not the towns. That makes him a smarter politician than me but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I'd rather lose doing what I thought was right than win knowing I had lost my compass.
This blog seems to support him no matter which way he goes. I am unable to support people in that fashion. Motives for me are extremely important.
Terry,
Today, April 26, 2009 you said...
"I never said we would suffer greatly or otherwise. I have said THIS IS ONE REASON WE NEED TO KEEP OUR COPS ON THE STREETS WORKING SO THAT VIOLENCE DOESN'T COME HERE..."
However, under the headline of "Mary Reilly Opines on Oro Valley Police" when I said...
One officer gave an account of a day on the job. What stood out to me was that she mentioned nothing about any armed battles with Mexican drug cartels or any drug cartel arrests. Yet at a previous council meeting, I listened to citizens who argued against cutting the police force because "the Mexican drug cartels are here, they're in our neighborhoods!"
As I said before, if that's true, then I'm all for keeping our current level of police or even increasing it, but I have yet to hear even one account of the OVPD vs. a Mexican drug cartel. I'm just so tired of people using FEAR as a method to get what they want. Let's address the issues that ACTUALLY exist and not the ones that only exist in some people's paranoid heads."
You responded...
April 7, 2009
"Cowgirl you should be cautious but not fearful but sometimes the truth is scary. Are police supposed to be quiet so you don't become afraid. BY THE WAY, THE CARTEL VIOLENCE IS HERE, IT IS TRUE, ingnorance mixed with fear calls this paranoid so we don't have to believe what we don't want to face."
So on April 7th you said "the cartel violence IS here" but on April 26th, in response to the AZ Star Article that contradicts your original statement, you backed down from that statement and said..."so that violence DOESN'T COME HERE."
Sorry to "micromanage" your posts, but you went from...it IS here... to...we need to prevent it from coming here.
I bring this up because I originally suspected that the OVPD was using fear tactics (The Mexican drug cartels are here!) as an excuse to prove how necessary their jobs were, and, according to the AZ Star article, my suspicions were not unfounded.
regarding how much force is worth paying for. If only we knew for a fact the future. I'd rather be overinsured than underinsured. It takes a year to train a cop.
I also think tough economic are usually exactly the wrong time to cut your force. Accessories depending on the definition are almost always expendable.
Terry,
"Motives for me are extremely important."
I agree.
That's why I question the motives of the OVPD when they tried to impress on the citizens that the drug cartels were here when they really were not.
There is always a motive behind fear tactics.
VC
You are being a little petty here but I'll explain.
Cartel violence is here as in all around Oro Valley, in Pima County in Tucson in Marana. I believe our police force is a major reason that it is not commonly found in Oro Valley.
If OVPD ever comes up against a drug cartel they will lose. They have too many soldiers. Just look at Mexico their army is having a tough time.
Fortunately there is no reason for that to ever occur. Like my department OVPD usually just encounters their minions I don't know anything about the dealer they killed but he certainly got his drugs from someone larger than himself. Cartel violence and drug violence are sometimes the same. However, basic drug violence is more common just as violent only not controlled.
An example would be April 2 this year a dealer stabbed 3 Oro Valley CDO high school students and ran a girl over with his car. By definition not Cartel violence but certainly drug violence.
What is the explanation for the heroin deaths at CDO? Clearly, there is a drug problem in OV. With the users come the dealers and their suppliers. I don't want to see the drug wars in our streets.
I failed to point out that as the cartels get more violent with the dealers and transporters they in turn get more violent.
For example- if the cartels killed every drug transporter or dealer that lost a load of drugs to the police.
Those dealers and transporters would respond in kind with the police trying to stay alive.
That is an extremly generic example but the same occurs with human smuggling etc etc
Heroin is a rich kids drug. Catalina Foothills kids are having issues with it as well. Southside schools don't have these issues.
PS i use the word rich loosely
Terry, maybe the Mexican drug cartel is not physically here but their presence is indeed felt they certainly are behind the drugs and drug use and most likely a good amount of the crime.
I seriously doubt those home invaders are watching those two plasma tv's they stole. Wonder how much money the sold the tv's for and how much of that went to buy drugs.
Who controls the drug trade here in America?
Sometimes I think people forget just how close we are to the area of Tucson that is a high crime area.
Above is just my opinion and of course I make no sense and know nothing as some here have graciously pointed out(sarcasm intended)
Terry, correct me if I am wrong, but thought I read that heroin is now one of the so called "in" drugs because it is cheap.
Years ago, I recall it was expensive.
Terry, in tough economic times cuts HAVE to be made. Every department I have ever encountered has a 'bit' of fluff contained therein, even the Sheriff and Police Departments'. I will maintain that when the police issue came to light in the beginning,no specific crime issues were introduced. Personally, not only from suspicion but from publicized information, the same drug problems that face us most probably face other venues throughout our country (as well as throughout the world). Back to the 'fluff', a personal acquaintence is a BUDGET DIRECTOR for a large Sheriff's department in another state; YOU just can't convince me that law enforcement departments do not contain some unnecessary fluff.
Mscoyote, you seem to have become embedded in a persecution complex.
Whatever might be said here, deal with it.
Hey Zev,
Did I mention you? No.
Get over yourself
Coyote
Good observations. Heroin was once "expensive".
It is now an "in drug" for the hip or "in kids". Heroin is more affordable than before. That's why it is now a problem with kids instead of primarily an adult problem. It is still not cheap but cheap enough for upper middle class kids.
Regarding the cartel I must be having trouble being clear today. They're here in Pima County. They have drug smuggling routes and organizations strewn throught our area. Oracle Rd, I-10 are major cooridors for national distribution.
The cartels are becoming more violent to their smugglers when they lose drugs to the police etc. As a result if you are a smuggler you fight the cops harder drive faster, become more lethal in an attempt to not lose your narcotics.
If you do lose the load somebody in your family maybe innocent maybe not will be kidnapped ransomed for the value of the load or for another load in trade. If you do not pay your family member will be tortured and often killed.
then another kidnap is done until you and your family no longer exist or the debt has been paid.
Example you lose 200 pounds of MJ to the cops escape capture. Cartel kidnaps your daughter. Holds for ransom.
Because your a smuggler yo know other smugglers. You know someone who is supposed to have 250 pounds waiting for transport. You get you crew together and complete a home invasion trying to get the MJ you need to save your daughter.
You fail you will try again and fast because you know what is going to happen to your daughter when the cartel gets tired of waiting.
26 home invasions in Pima County so far this year last year 10 anyone starting to see a trend. One home invasion represents a whole host of crimes some detected some not.
Terry.
Thanks for some food for thought about the drug problem and crime involved.
I read that article again and there are so many things that could be picked apart & questioned by those with the time and energy(my opinion).
For starters they used quotes/interviews with 10 law enforcement professionals. How many others were interviewed & what where their opinons?
How would anybody know for sure if somebody who is arrested is from a Mexican drug cartel? Unless there is a record, I doubt they admit it to the cops?
Arizona Star is not exactly known for unbiased reporting, along with most papers, so I take a lot of what I read with a grain of salt and a little thought.
I love scare tactics.
Geo. Bush and his band of neo-cons runined the US with a war to fight the evil Saddam. Who turned out to be a Middle East Tito, no better - no worse.
But Jesus we were scared.
Terry,
Actually enjoyed your last post. This is why when you came back to the blog after about a year long absence, I said I was glad you were back because, as someone in law enforcement, you could provide information that, for the most part, the rest of us wouldn't have access to.
Although you weren't the one who said it at the infamous "stacked" council meeting (that I think was back in March), there is a big difference between..the cartels are right here in our neighborhoods...and...cartel violence is in the towns SURROUNDING Oro Valley but not commonly found IN Oro Valley.
That's what I mean by scare tactics. The first comment was a scare tactic. The second comment is probably much closer to the truth.
Is nobody but me concerned with the fact that Mr. Parish disclosed privileged information regarding a crime in which a 13 year old was victimized?
No only did Mr. Parish disclose the information, he disclosed the case number.
Per the Pima County Sheriff's department website:
How to I obtain copies of a police report?
The Pima County Sheriff’s Department maintains a state of the art computerized records maintenance system. The Records Maintenance Unit manages public law enforcement records originated by the Department. Records originating in other jurisdictions are not maintained or released by the Department. Requests for records may be submitted in person or by mail to:
Pima County Sheriff’s Department
Attn: Records Maintenance
1650 E. Benson Hwy, Suite C
Tucson, AZ 85714-1758
(520) 351-4650
When making a records request the following information is required:
• Requestor’s name, address, and telephone number
Case number or date and location of the incident
I understand that as a "Cops Cop" Mr. Parish is the self appointed spokesman for the OVPD and as such chooses to do everything in his power to advocate for the Police.
But under the oath of his badge shouldn’t he also be an advocate for the 13-year-old victim?
Shouldn’t that come first?
I'm not sure that grandstanding and disclosing information in which a 13-year-old MINOR CHILD was victimized to make a point on a blog. Information in which he would not have had privy to unless he was in Law Enforcement would be considered advocating for the victim.
To paraphrase Mr. Parish in which he said above " I'd rather lose doing what I thought was right than win knowing I had lost my compass."
I believe Mr. Parish you have lost your compass.
Maybe the rest of us weren't adept enough to realize what "concerned citizen" noted.
Was it a violation to list a case number as Parish did with that comment? I don't know, but somebody might.
No it is not a violation case numbers are public information as is the event as it ocurred. No information was improperly released.
The case number was provided so you would be able to check my statements by asking records for a copy. We are not forbidden to talk about our experiences only from releasing private personal info like Dates of birth addresses socials etc and in the case of juveniles names.
Art I am done for good with your blog because it is not here for discussion as advertised it is instead here so people can get their kicks being rude and waiting for others to make a mistake.
My mistake was to reinitiate your blog in conversation. I have reread my posts and realized that I have also fallen into the trap of not being as polite or respectful to others as my personal belief system requires. I am signing off . I wish you all well. If I have offended I apologize. You may reply if you like but I will not be here to read your post.
Terry
Concerned citizen...your last post attacking Terry was rediculous. Did you read the portion of the Pima County Sheriff's Dept information that you quoted...."When making a records request the following information is required:
• Requestor’s name, address, and telephone number
Case number or date and location of the incident"
You need a case number to request this information...if the case number was confidential, then how would you request case information....THE CASE NUMBER IS NOT CONFIDENTIAL. Mr Parish did nothing wrong other than cite crimes or write something that you did not want to hear or read....Ignorance is bliss right... and the more you hear of the violent crimes going on in our community the less ignorant you are of what is going on making you feel less and less safe. Instead of doing something constructive to fix this and make you feel safer, you attack the messenger who apparently is not coming back to this blog. That's a shame. I'm disappointed that he is letting you people win.
Here is an idea...Fire the whole police department...de-incorporate (of there is such a word) and let the Sheriff's Department take control of the public safety.
Terry---- You need not read anymore or participate anymore. That is certainly your choice.
However, you may find our posting on the results of the police budget vote interesting.
If you depart, if that's your decision,you might want to remember these final words.
As I said recently in an earlier comment on one post or another---
"Niceness begets niceness."
Once again Art, your rude and offensive comments drive people away.
Yes, Terry has a point of view that differs from yours. I frequently disagree with him too.
I doubt he was the bully on the playground who ended up rejected by his peers.
This blog can be a good point of constructive problem solving and communication if the insults STOP.
Should you continue character assassinations of good people who were willing to serve as elected officials then I expect to see fewer and fewer contributors on this blog.
LBC-09
While I also don't believe that Terry revealed any confidential information, your post contains a mistake:
"When making a records request the following information is required:
• Requestor’s name, address, and telephone number
Case number or date and location of the incident"
You then said, "You need a case number to request this information..."
It actually says that you need a case number OR date and location of the incident, so it sounds like the case number is not a requirement.
One of my past jobs involved editing articles for medical journals which is how I came to be very nitpicky about words.
Deacon---Your perception is slightly askew. Learn your facts, and then come back.
As as side note this blog managed quite well without your snide comments. So,if you see fit to join Mr. Parish,don't let the door hit you in the "rear."
Artmarth
You are behaving like a pathetic mentally challenged left wing nut. If someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you tell them that the blog did well without them and they can leave.
You said the same thing to me on a previous post....
Are we seeing a pattern. You feel challenged and bully your way to the top....NICE
Yes lbc09, you too are welcome to leave. As I said, we managed just fine without the arrogance displayed by you and a couple of others and we will cotinue to do so.
Your comment "You are behaving like a pathetic mentally challenged left wing nut," says more about you than it does about me.
Congratulations on your choice of words. You managed to offend quite a large group of citizens with your stupidity.
artmarth said,
"Deacon---Your perception is slightly askew. Learn your facts, and then come back.
As as side note this blog managed quite well without your snide comments. So,if you see fit to join Mr. Parish,don't let the door hit you in the "rear.""
When Deacon said,
"Once again Art, your rude and offensive comments drive people away."
I think LBC09 said it best when he or she said,
"Artmarth
You are behaving like a pathetic mentally challenged left wing nut."
Need I say more...?
This blog should welcome all points of view from all concerned citizens.
Rude, nasty comments do not help our community.
We do not want to become the FOX News of Oro Valley - just promoting our own beliefs.
I do not agree with the Polizei Uber Alles party represented by Mr. Parish, but I think it was good to read his sometimes over the top posts.
If we keep inviting people to leave, we will soon have only our own chior to preach to.
Nombe..
it is obviously apparent that this is what the chior director wants.
ezek
you didn't say anything.
but thank you for throwing my quote in there.
Nombe,
Do you watch fox news?
If you don't like fox news, stop watching, seems like they keep beating out the competition.
I keep watching MSNBC to see if Keith Olberman's head explodes.
And of course for that wild music he plays. hahah
mscoyote
that was refreshing and much needed, thank you.
The problem with ALL of the cable "news" stations is that they don't REPORT the news, they CREATE the news and state their OPINIONS as being FACT. And FOX is the worst of the offenders.
I watch all of them just to see the "bias" in how each of them reports the events of the day and then I make up my own mind about who presented it the most accurately.
If you want to see someone's head explode, my bet would be to stick with Glenn Beck. And for the record, I actually liked him the first time I heard him.
He was discussing the Phoenix Memo and gave the best commentary on it that I'd ever heard. I continued watching him after that, but within a few months, his personality changed to where he became a media sideshow and well, now I just think he's mentally ill.
Wow! One says, referring to me---
"You are behaving like a pathetic mentally challenged left wing nut."
Another endorses the comment.
Then, another says:
"We do not want to become the FOX News of Oro Valley - just promoting our own beliefs."
Anyone else see any contradictions here?
Agree with some of what you say vc.
I also watch them all just to see how they spin the story.
Glen Beck is too dramatic, Hannity is predictable. I feel that Olberman is mentally ill and the most hateful person on cable news tv.
Thanks borderculture, I try to find a little humor in things, at least I try.
Ordinarily I would not bring up national politics on a local blog, but Nombe for some reason thought it was appropriate, thus my kidding around.
Art,
Little hard to follow all of the back and forth.
Sounds like everybody is watching too much cable tv news. :)))
Mscoyote.
The only reason national politics was mentioned was in the context of scare tatics.
I agree FOX (Faux) and MSNBC are baised.
I see Art continues to refuse take personal responsibility for his rude and offensive statements. He welcomes anyone who disagrees with him to leave this blog.
So much for respecting the points of view of others. Without listening to all sides there will be continued conflict and little resolution.
Great job Art, you appear like a dictatorship over democracy. Now wonder you don't run for election and take the critique of the general population.
The REAL hot seat would be beyond your temperament.
Deacon--- At least I've got enough confidence to let everyone know who I am and what I stand for.
I don't go around criticizing others while hiding behind a pseudonym.
How easy it must be to denigrate someone and do it anonymously.
Where I come from, that would be referred to as being a "Chicken S**t!"
This is your blog Art. When you have a policy of contributors using their names, I will too.
It appears you want only those who agree with you to post here. I doubt the readership will grow very much.
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