Thursday, September 29, 2011

Guest View-Mark Berg Presents His Alternative View To The Ford Property Rezoning

[Ed Note: In this posting, Mark Berg is referring to our posting entitled: "Rancho Vistoso Alert: Rezoning Of Ford Property Is Being Evalatuated".]
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Great work LOVE for again keeping our community informed.

A few thoughts in response to yours, playing Devil's advocate at times:

“The impact on the adjacent residential neighborhood will be substantial. The neighborhood has almost 500 single family homes. There are but two entrances in and out of their area, one of which is on to Ranch Vistoso Blvd. The impact of 256 rental units adding an additional 400 plus cars to the roadway daily will be enormous in terms of road traffic and, of course, additional pollution.”
RESPONSE:
These are 'high' end apartments at $100/sq ft so may be less likely to attract renters who are disrespectful of the neighborhood. Many of us have lived in such apartments and although they are not single family homes, they are not necessarily detractors to the community (think of the apartments at Pusch Wilderness Drive before they were made into condos). These didn't disrupt the community and remember, each one of these tenants lives and shops in OV which equals $$$ for our business and community). A;so, these roads are made to handle more traffic than they currently do. 400 cars a day increase? Even counting a coming and going trip (800 trips) divided by 16 hours in the day when you aren't sleeping, thats only 50 cars an hour)

“There is no guarantee that can be given regarding whether the apartments will be residential upscale, which would suit the adjacent neighborhood, or low income housing, which will not. This is true regardless of what the developer may say.”
RESPONSE:
The 'guarantee' is that the city zones the area and assures the construction and planning is up to standard. They cannot build a slum under the permit they receive.


“What will be the impact on crime in the area? Generally, there is more crime attendant with rental units than with single family residencies.”
RESPONSE:
This may or may not be true generally as you note. Again, look to other similarly priced apartments for comparison crime statistics. In addition, OV has more than enough police to handle the addition of these residents, we all know that!

“We are a bit hard pressed to see how, in this dismal economy, a major new apartment complex, no matter how pretty, has any economic viability (item c). So, as a minimum, the Developer should be asked to provide an Economic Feasibility Study, prepared by an independent third party, that verifies that this project is economically feasible. Otherwise, we could wind up with bladed land with no properties on it or empty units subject to degrading. Either way, the Town should investigate this aspect of the request.”
RESPONSE:
Good point on requiring the city to investigate on what would happen with an unfinished property, but I would caution all of us to avoid "back seat driving" and second guessing any business person or developer. Who knows? This may or may not be successful, but as lovers of freedom and free enterprise we KNOW it's not government's role to second guess business. This is what developers do for a living. Let them decide if it's worth the risk. Moreover, without building in the established city, they will more likely head to the outskirts and develop more open desert, decreasing the quality of environment for us all through further urban sprawl.

“We also fail to see how, given its impact on the "neighborhood" (item d), it would have any community acceptance by those who live in the neighborhood. It will likely reduce their property values since it could possibly block their view of the Catalina's, views for which many of them were charged extra when they purchased their homes.”
RESPONSE:
This gets close to "I'm on board, pull up the ladder." Wouldn't it have been nice for the few people who lived in Oro Vally in 1980 to keep the down just as it was then? No traffic at all, great views everywhere, no pesky neighbors? If you may more for a view that's lost, that's what happens when a city grows. Don't like it? Move to a place with a view and try again.

“What is the impact on our town's infrastructure? For example, what is the impact on our water system? What is the impact on our Police Department? What will the town need to do to accommodate the increased traffic: Widen the roadways of Innovation Drive/Commerce Loop, add traffic controls, or increase speed limits?”
RESPONSE:
Good points to raise, all of them, but, all of these are city duties to consider. Let the city decide if the infrastructure can handle it. That's why we elect and pay these people who are experts in city planning.

Marc Berg
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10 comments:

mscoyote said...

With all due respect to Mark. Maybe he forgot about Vestar or was not living here when Vestar promised the town an upscale shopping center.The developer lied. Do all developers lie? No but there does seem to be a pattern. And would Mark want 50 or more cars per hour on a road close to his home? Apartments for whatever reason do seem to attract more crime and I am not implying that its the fault of the folks who live there.

Desert Voice said...

Marc,

Thank you for your post as difference of opinion helps us finetune our thinking.

Subtlties impact this apt. development. If you could rent at $4500. a month, that is, giving away $4,500 would you relocate across the street from a crematory, opposite an industrial park, where the closest shopping area doesn't have a grocery store, adjacent to a middle income subdivision, no matter how well maintained and how great a community it was? I don't think so.

Water: water laws are very convoluted. I don't think any citizen sits comfortably about gov's transparent sharing about our h2O viabillity. 256 units is more than half of VVistas total number of houses. One does not need to be an expert in hydrology to realize the drain on local resources this will cause.

Traffic: If addition to the apartment complex, there are medical offices whose patients will increase traffic. The MD Derm building right next to the apt complex elected this area because his high patient load needed parking. If he spends 6-10 mins. per patient, that means in a 9 hour day, 54-90 patients a day will visit his office in addition to the apt. and subdivision traffic. In addition Diagnostic Imaging, and Audio facility, a DDS office and a realtor will also utilized these same roads.

Vistoso Commerce Loop facilitates communting for Ventana/Roche, Sonoran Quest, Easy Care, an MD Surgeon, Chiro, Dentist, Venture West to name a few. The load of traffic represents considerably more than the subdivision and apartments will. Furthermore, access for many requires a lefthand turn increasing the possibilty for an accident.
School buses frequently enter and exit the subdivision transporting children to school, some of whom are handicapped. Bikers ride this road, exercising.

Furthermore, the only exits from Sun City, a senior only community, is either RV to First or RV Bvld to Oracle which passes the intersection of RVB and Vis Commerce Loop. Statistics say that seniors have a higher rate of accidents. Am Disabilites Act require accommodations for blind, deaf and handicapped people.Sun City residents are among the patients who use Radiology, the MD Derm, the dentist, the audiologist, the Labs, the Surgeon and the Chiro. These accomodations will be mandatory. With an increased number of seniors, indeed, Beztak wants to recruit snowbirds, there will be mandated accommodations for these roads. Clients and employees of these factilites use this shortcut.

Let's look at the volume of traffice and the air pollution which results for the present occupants. How will this increased air pollution along with the cremi impact the residents? A resident of Saddlebrook with mercury poisoning volunteered how her life has changed from mercury poisoning and pleaded with TUV to correct the wrong.

Furthermoe, Rancho Vistoso has empty homes located in wonderful subdivisions that can be rented to maintain the integrity of this community. The habitable space is available with more quality, why does a renter have to have an apartment with limited privacy, less square footage, opposite an industrial park and opposite a crematory?

Anonymous said...

Don't forget new apartments are being considered for: 1) Tangerine & First Ave. 2) Oracle & First Ave. and 3) on Oracle where the never-completed hotel was just demolished.

I don't believe any of those additonal apartment sites require amending the General Plan.

Desert Voice said...

Cares For,

That's astounding as it is so close to Vistoso Vistas and Innovation Park. Do you know how many units are projected per site?
Thanks for the info.

Faveaunts said...

Last nite, I asked the RV HOA to advise the community of the Town's rezoning plans to permit apts at RV & Tangerine last nite. They told me to get neighbors involved because they're here to enforce CCRs. I was stunned as I thought their responsibilities included preservation of property values for residents.

In any case, today I spoke w/ Chad Daines in Zoning who advised that RV & Tangerine is looking at 250 apts. The conceptual drawings show 2-3 story bldgs which will definitely impact mountain views.

I asked how the # of apts afffected the dwelling unit cap detailed in the PAD. He didn't know - would have to look it up. I asked how many dwellings there are today. Same answer. I asked how much of RV is open space as the PAD states it must be 50%. Same answer.

Why are they planning/considering all these apt complexes when they don't even know if the General Plan or PAD will permit them? Isn't that something you should look at before investing time in reviewing developers' plans?

I agree with all the responses to Mark so far. We liked the residential character of the community when we bought our homes. Changing the rules & rezoning is not what we bought into. Who's to say they won't try for a prison next? It's a multi-family use bldg...

mscoyote said...

Shirl, the HOA for the most part will not get involved. If there is more development, the management co gets more business.If I remember correctly, one of the current town council members , who was appointed, rather then elected was on the board of the RV HOA.
Only chance of making the town council deny this rezoning is for residents of Rancho Vistoso to organize and state their objections.
It's tough to fight city hall

Nombe Watanabe said...

mscoyote, your statement:

"HOA exists to enforce the CCRs. " is scary. The HOA should exist to assist the community not police the community.

The HOA rep that made such a statement is an example why we must get rid of all HOAs and fire the management companies. We don't need them and they suck money out of our pockets.

The are like Cuban block captains. The HOA act as informers, the French knew how to take care of informers after WW2.

mscoyote said...

Nombe,
Put your glasses on :))
I did not say that, it was Shirl

Faveaunts said...

mscoyote: Love your idea that RV residents band together. Let's talk to our neighbors & get as many people to attend the mtgs as possible, email/write letters to cdaines@orovalleyaz.gov & call Town Council. If people can't attend, take their letters to the mtg for them. The RV & Tangerine zoning mtg is 10/4 6 pm OV Council Chambers 11000 N La Canada Dr. The Ford property mtg info is on this home page - I think 10/10.

Does anyone know mtg dates for the other proposed apt locations? We should all attend every mtg relative to this issue.

Just heard the exact same rezoning issue is at Oracle & Linda Vista: another 250 apts plus commercial. That's 750 apts in 3 projects. Doesn't seem like all this development can posssibly comply w/ General Plan & PAD plans.

Also, I'm not sure the mgt co would get to manage these apts. And I simply wanted the HOA to advise everyone that this was going on. If they can welcome DR Horton to Stonefield neighborhood, tell us about scorpions, bicycle etiquette & late fees, they can take the time to actually tell us something of importance. Very disappointed in their stance.

Nombe Watanabe said...

MsCoyote, Shirl:

I forgot were I put my glasses.....if I had them I could find them.....

Sorry for the misquote....

Nombe.