Whenever John Musolf speaks, it would behoove the listener to not only "hear," what John says, but to "listen" to what he says.
Please read John's letter to The Explorer (below) and see if you don't agree. We certainly do!
OV council turns consent agenda to sham
In the Nov. 17 town council meeting, in the “Call to Audience” segment, I expressed an opinion that the use of the consent agenda had been abused by past and current mayor, council and town staff.
Under Town Code 2-4-6 (A) items to be placed on the consent agenda:
“When any item of business requires action by the council, but is of a routine and noncontroversial nature, such item may be presented at a regular meeting of the council as part of a consent agenda.”
In my opinion, items are placed on the consent agenda because they are not routine or noncontroversial, but someone wants a quick rubber-stamp approval of the item in question.
Town Code 2-4-6 (C) states:
“There shall be no debate or discussion by any member of the council regarding any item on the consent agenda, beyond asking questions for simple clarification.”
This statement effectively limits discussion of the merits of the item in question prior to approval.
In the Nov. 17 consent agenda, there were 14 consent agenda items and only four regular agenda items. I questioned whether Item G, Item I, Item J, and Item K were routine and noncontroversial. I submitted a blue card to speak on each of these items. Mayor Hiremath allowed me to speak on Item G only. So much for full disclosure and democratic rights.
Council member Hornat rebutted my abuse argument by stating that there is a mis-conception by the public that all council members do not review the consent agenda items in significant detail. He said the council members do review them prior to council meetings in significant detail.
Then the mayor and council members spent the next three hours discussing five of the 14 routine and noncontroversial items in significant detail.
What a sham.
John Musolf, Oro Valley
7 comments:
John Musolf is so wise, I would like him to bless my Thanksgiving dinner next year. I am also in love with the word 'behoove.'
OV Dad,
We meet again.
Mr. Musolf made a statement that "the consent agenda has been abused." He then provided info on the Town Code as it applies to the consent agenda which states that consent agenda items must be "of a routine and noncontroversial nature."
His argument is that items that ARE NOT routine and noncontroversial are being placed on the consent agenda. He suspects this is being done when "someone wants a quick rubber-stamp approval of the item."
He then offered some evidence of his assertion when he stated that the Mayor and council spent 3 hours discussing 5 of the consent agenda items. (I haven't seen the meeting, so I'm taking his word for this.)
Clearly, it doesn't take 3 hours to discuss 5 routine and non-controversial items. Therefore, Mr. Musolf made a valid observation.
Then, OV Dad, all you could come up with in response was a sarcastic statement questioning his "wisdom."
If Mr. Musolf is wrong, then it should have been easy for you to offer a counter argument, to prove him wrong, etc. But you offered no argument and no specifics.
The best part though is how you left your "ridicule" post on Thanksgiving Day. Apparently, you can't even be nice or civil on Thanksgiving. Gee...can't wait to see what glad tidings you offer us all on Christmas!
Victorian Cowgirl,
The pleasure is all mine.
May I assume you had a little too much wine on Thanksgiving, since even two days later you were not able to discern my comment about Art's introduction from "a sarcastic statement questioning [John Musolf's] 'wisdom'"? I can't explain your response in any other way, because I have found you to be an incredibly bright and intellectually engaging woman (albeit with the occasional distorted political view).
You, out of all people, should have known that I would never poke fun at John's articulate and precise analyses as well as his available free time that allows him to evaluate town council actions in this terrific, completely unbiased manner.
In fact, it is impossible to counter the infallible logic he presents and you explain to an average Joe like me. I don't quite understand why you would ask me to do the impossible. Life is not a Nike commercial after all.
With all due respect, I am appalled you called my previous post a 'ridicule' post. In light of this new post and my reformed political views, I hope you find it in your heart to retract your critique - even though it is no longer Thanksgiving. In case you do not, however, I will gladly attempt to remind you on Christmas!
Now, let's stay on topic here and refrain from personal attacks please. I wish the moderators would re-institute their approval policy so that VC can no longer attack me in such an unjustified manner.
Cowgirl---It appears that OVDad may have a problem stating his position. We did a posting on
Thursday, August 19, 2010
John Musolf Questions Oro Valley's "Balanced Budget"
OVDad had the initial comment, as follows:
"Let's cut the holiday party that will save as much money as John Musolf's repetitive and unnecessary requests cost. Let's make this town an awful place to work at and deny people training, but then complain that the town employees are doing a bad job. Let's try to save money by no longer honoring deserved volunteers (my 'well done' to you, Mr. Musolf) and remove the incentive of actual social recognition for volunteerism."
"Welcome to Art and John Musolf's Oro Valley 2010!"
August 19, 2010 9:38 AM
That is another example of OVDad responding to Mr. Musolf.
"Me thinks" if anyone is due an apology, it ought to come from OVDad.
Art
TAKE AWAY FROM THIS EXCHANGE:
OV DAD has "reformed political views"
I think it would behoove him to state his new views.
OV awaits.......
OV Dad,
I do not drink...so no...I did not have too much wine on Thanksgiving.
I did not misinterpret your post. You have been ridiculing Mr. Musolf's comments for months.
You claim that I attacked you in an unjustified manner because I stated that you ridiculed Mr. Musolf's comments...then you went on to further ridicule Mr. Musolf's comments.
Therefore, my comments were justified.
I'm glad you commented though. It brought Nombe back into the conversation and I always enjoy his posts...so you're good for something.
Again, if you're going to ridicule someone else's assertions, you would be taken more seriously if you provided some counter-assertions of your own (complete with facts to back up your beliefs) as Mr. Musolf always does.
OV Dad
First, I want to thank you for the compliment that I am wise.
I did lead the blessing (thanking God for our gifts and bounty) at our Thanksgiving dinner this year with my relatives.
I will be happy to include OV Dad’s Household next year as you requested.
Second, I want to thank you again for the compliment you gave me through your response to Victorian Cowgirl.
“You, out of all people, should have known that I would never poke fun at John's articulate and precise analyses as well as his available free time that allows him to evaluate town council actions in this terrific, completely unbiased manner.”
John Musolf
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