Friday, April 16, 2010

"Who's Kidding Whom?"

Were you one of the recipients of an email (excerpt below) extolling the virtues of mayoral candidate, Satish Hiremath?

The writer (who we don't think will be voting in our election because you must be an OV citizen tells us what's best for us) has the audacity to say, "Although it is a nonpartisan race, Dr. Hiremath is the only Republican Candidate for Mayor."

So much for "non-partisanship!"

That's not even the worst part. How about this? Dr. Hiremath has a history of fiscal responsibility ---."

Can anybody tell us what "history of fiscal responsibility the Dentist has displayed? It certainly wasn't when he put GOVAC in a financial hole as its past president. Definitely, it was not any involvement in Oro Valley politics, because other than the parade, what has Hiremath done?

Talk about "fiscal responsibility;"----How fiscally responsible is it to raid our contingency fund to balance our budget? That's not fiscal responsibility---that's fiscal irresponsibility, and yet that's part of Hiremath's plan.

How about supporting the likes of Chamber of Commerce, the realtors, the home builders, the police & fire unions. Giving our tax dollars to MTCVB & TREO.

They all support Hiremath and you can be sure, he'll be supporting them. Fiscally responsible? I don't think so!

The writer of the email is so proud of the fact that Hiremath is a Republican. Does Mr. Greg Harris (the letter writer) know we have a utility tax here in Oro Valley? It's a tax on our necessities----Gas, Water & Electric bills.

Does he know who was responsible for passing it? First time, it was four Republican council members. It was supposed to "sunset" in April 2009, but the Republican council members, lead by Loomis, Carter & Kunisch made sure it continued.

If you really want fiscal responsibility, you have no choice other than voting for MIKE ZINKIN FOR MAYOR & ONLY MATT RABB FOR COUNCIL.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Here's that email excerpt.


Dr. Satish Hiremath is running for Mayor of Oro Valley as the Conservative Pro-Business Choice! Dr. Hiremath is a small business owner and has been heavily involved in the Oro Valley community for many years. Although it is a nonpartisan race, Dr. Hiremath is the only Republican Candidate for Mayor. Dr. Hiremath has a history of fiscal responsibility and will bring his management experience to Oro Valley. He has been endorsed by the Northern Pima Chamber of Commerce, the Tucson Chamber of Commerce, the Tucson Association of Realtors, the North Tucson Firefighters, and the Oro Valley Fraternal Order of Police. Elections are right around the corner on May 18 and the grassroots battle starts now! We need your help!

52 comments:

travelling dancer said...

I find it strange that an individual, who does not live in Oro Valley or work in Oro Valley, or attend meetings in Oro Valley, thinks that he should email to all those people about a Candidate, who is running for Mayor here. Is he working on Dr. Hiremath's campaign? Is he a paid employee of Dr. Hiremath or a paid volunteer?

Those of us who attend Oro Valley Council Meetings have observed all the candidates. He surprisingly has been absent except when asking for funds for GOVAC.

Friends of mine were surprised to see him finally attend a meeting, but apparently was sooo bored. that he fell asleep and snored. From what she told me several snickered. and seemed surprised that he really wanted to be Mayor. The question was: "What is that all about"? Is this a puppet scenario? Do his endorsements want something from him? I thought that was an interesting observation

The Zee Man said...

Clearly, the forces of Evil are decending on Oro Valley to try to get this joker, Hiremath, elected. He is the least qualified candidate we have ever had. He stands for nothing. He is on the run from debating Mike Zinkin because Mike will make him look foolish.

The goal of these forces is to put a puppet and two clowns in office. If they win, they will completely control Oro Valley.

It is up to us to spread the word.

Desert Voice said...

Bloggers:

How ironic that it is Hiremath's friend, a non resident of OV, tries to turn this election into a partisan one! Hiremath declined Zinkin's invitation to debate by saying he didn't want to turn it into a partisan election.

Me thinks again Hiremath speaks out of both sides of his mouth...saying one thing, doing another.

Hiremath describes himself as fiscally responsible. Yet it was Hiremath who had financial difficulty managing GOVAC...Hiremath who acknowledged that he, too, had to layoff his own staff presumably because of financial difficulties. Yet he praises himself as a "business man".

He talked about his "relationship building skills". Does this mean he builds relationships but does not commit? One wonders how his Conservative Republican women feel about his lifestyle choice, his feelings towards women.

Hiremath alleges concern about the biggest issue facing TOV, a balanced budget. How can he, a mayoral candidate, walk out of a training session on the budget?

Snider, Hornat and Waters, you who align yourselves with this candidate, will you also feel "free" to excuse yourselves from such meetings because the future mayoral candidate did? Since you all bonded is this the behavior we will get if you are elected? You are backing a candidate who has done you more harm than good.

artmarth said...

I will not be as harsh toward Satish, but we can only hope enough voters see what is going on here.

There is much support for the "good dentist." The question is--- where is the support coming from?

The answer, to a great extent is, outside entities that have their own agenda. What's bad about that is this:

These Special Interest people & groups are NOT CONCERNED about the welfare of the people of Oro Valley.

Mike Zinkin, when elected will not be indebted to any Special Interest---only the people.

Oh! By the way, guess how much money came into Hiremath's campaign as of the last report?

Answer---- More than $17,000. That's more than 3 times that of
Mike Zinkin.

Is Hiremath a better fund raiser?

Sure---but it comes with a caveat. You can be 100% sure the Special Interests will be looking for "payback," and the OV taxpayers will be "payees."

PLEASE --- Don't allow the Special Interests to buy our election.

Believe me, it will not serve your interests.

OVDad said...

The hatred towards the business community ("the forces of evil") that this blog exhibits shows why Hiremath is the only alternative for mayor. Everything Zinkin says is endorsed from Art and the Zee Man. Is this a coincidence? Or is he the real straw puppet here?

To anyone who is really serious about this town: look at their websites and talk to the candidates. This witch hunt that this blog has become has done more harm than good to what I think about Zinkin.

If Zinkin gets elected he will be beholden to these blogmasters, not the people. Come on, who are you kidding? Yes, you are not giving money to him and thus not legally considered special interest. But we all know that if he gets in, it will be partly because of the cheap publicity he gets here. If he then does something you guys dislike, he is going to hear that from you. You can't fool me or anyone in that regard. But that is not a problem because the interest of the people is the same as Art's and Zee Man's interest from all I heard so far. Anyone that dissents is a sneaky business man who wants to pull money out of your pockets... That's called a paranoia, for your information.

artmarth said...

OV Dad--- I'll repeat for your benefit and any others that may need an explanation:

What might we (Zeeman & I) desire from helping Mike (& Matt) get elected?

Think about it? What do WE have to gain other than wanting what is best for the overwhelming majority of the PEOPLE OF ORO VALLEY?

On the other hand, do I need to tell you the agenda of all these Special Interest entities?

If and when THEIR CANDIDATES get elected, you can be damn sure, they'll ALL expect something in return for their favors.

That's the way it is.

You know it. We know it---and hopefully enough of our Oro Valley neighbors will know it.

OVDad said...

Art:

Are you really saying that the only agenda you have is to make sure candidates with endorsements from basically anyone do not get a say in OV politics? You take stands on issues. For example, you oppose a property tax and you want cuts in the police department. You want strict enforcement of codes.

But those are your stands, not the people's. They might have different opinions and it appears hard for the blogmasters here to understand that. And since you are using this platform to help candidates, you can certainly influence them when they are in office. Or are you telling me if Zinkin turns around and starts believing it is best for OV to be more business friendly and relax some of the codes you will not be enraged?

artmarth said...

OVDad--- Let me try and explain this to you in another way.

Mike Zinkin has his ideas and plans for OV when he becomes Mayor.

I agree with just about everything Mike stands for. That is why we support him.

I hope you are not one of Mike's detractors that constantly misrepresents his views.

For example, Mike is business friendly and WILL vote to relax some of the stringent building codes we now have.

Rather than me being "outraged," I would support (once again) Mike's intentions on that issue.

The problem may come down to this:

You are believing all the lies and intentional misrepresentations perpetrated against Mike by the SPECIAL INTERESTS GROUPS.

Hiremath, gets his support because he either doesn't understand our General Plan, thinks the General Plan is obsolete, or just doesn't care and will give the Special Interests whatever they desire.

Will that be beneficial to the people? You tell me.

OVDad said...

Art:

No, I am not one of his detractors. I have listened to his videos and read his website. I have read Hiremath's website as well. I know he is endorsed by various groups. These groups always support the candidate they seem fit. They must have thought that he represents their vision of Oro Valley more clearly than Zinkin. I am not a business man. I am not special interest. I am a citizen of Oro Valley who believes that Satish Hiremath is the better choice for mayor.

What bothers me is that you cannot understand that other citizens (or: the people) might decide the same way I did. Every time someone has stated that they support Hiremath (or Waters and Hornat for that matter), they are denounced as supporting special interest and not the people. Well, we are citizens too. Mary Snider was endorsed by all these organizations, but I have no doubt she will serve the people of Oro Valley as good as anyone has before her.

I have stated this before, maybe not as clearly as I will now: Just because a candidate is endorsed and supported by a group, does not make them beholden to them. It does not make them the "special interest" candidate vs. "the people's candidate". That makes for flashy headlines, but is an utter misrepresentation. You argue that there are a lot of "detractors" that misrepresent Mike's views. I argue that you two are detractors that misrepresent candidates' views which are not endorsed by this blog.

I am looking forward to your reply. Please also enable a comment I made under Mike's video.

artmarth said...

OVDad--- Obviously, you are not alone in your support of Hiremath. After all, he did get approx 3500 votes in the primary.

My concerns about Satish are the following:

1) Total lack of experience in town government.

2) His desire to raid our contingency fund to balance our budget.

3) His obvious lack of knowledge of our General Plan.

4) His alliance with the likes of the Tucson C of C, the N Pima C of C, the police & fire fighter unions, etc.

5)Hardly ever, other than very recently, attending any council meetings. Can he actually run a meeting is a big question mark.

6) He claims he can be mayor and still maintain his dental practice.
I can't tell him he can't, but must wonder how he can effectively be in charge. The mayor only has one vote, but many more responsibilities than a council member.

7)The new mayor & new council will appoint a person to fill Salette's seat. Does Hiremath think as Zinkin does, that Pat Sporel would be a wise choice? She is intelligent, independent, and I believe she has proved her worthiness.

8) Hiremath, with the support of TREO & MTVCB has indicated it would be wise for OV taxpayers to continue to fund these outside agencies. Zinkin says, "No more earmarks,unless OV citizens have something to gain."

There's more, but that's enough for now.

Sorry, I didn't post your other comment (on other thread) soon enough. It is done now.

Jay D said...

OV Dad, I appreciate your comments. There are too many running threads throughout this blog that I believe are incorrect. For instance, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Dr. Hiremath will raid the contingency fund. And by the way, did you all read in the recent Explorer that "Oro Valley finance officials have given the town council a preview of the fiscal 2011 budget, a spending plan anticipated to come in balanced." So this means there will be NO raiding of the contingency fund by anyone!

Art, for the education of your readers, could you please explain this comment you made: "The mayor only has one vote, but many more responsibilities than a council member." Personally, I'd love to know how many more responsibilities the mayor has and what they are specifically.

I am tired of the discussion regarding which candidate has more time to spend in his elected position. If this is truly such an important point, then this blog must stop promoting Matt Rabb. My guess is that Matt is as busy, if not busier, in his law practice as Dr. Hiremath is in his dental practice.

And I guess we could argue all day about whether or not Oro Valley has something to gain from TREO or MTVCB. At this point, I think we will all continue to disagree.

Zev Cywan said...

My three cents:

My personal observation and opinion that follows is that, of ALL of the candidates for a seat on Council, Mayoral or Councilperson, Dr. Hiremath is the least qualified for any of the positions up for election. He advocates that he is a 'small businessperson'. As one who has served in the business world for over 4 decades, I cannot classify him as such. He is, in fact, a 'professional', occupying an 'office' space with relative equipment in order to practice, and doing so without the necessities of obtaining those requirements in a manner consistent with most businesses - advertising, store frontage, frontal identification, hands-on oversight, etc. A profession such as his needs only a 'space' in which to operate, even one that could be far from the reaches of a frontal entrance, a business which grows strictly by word of mouth, referrals, and possibly a certain amount of networking; Dr. Hiremath - a PROFESSIONAL, yes, a BUSINESS PERSON, definitely not in the sense as is commonly accepted. So, how can he 'know' the business community of Oro Valley - only by what he is told and 'tales' have little substance.

As for his being a 'leader' for the Community, Dr. Hiremath's credentials are not only sorely lacking, they appear to be somewhat on the NEGATIVE side. He has done little to immerse himself in the operations of Oro Valley over the many years he has lived here, has virtually no attendance at Council meetings or relative entities, he has served on no board or committee directly involved in the workings of Town, and, his only claim to attachment to Oro Valley is his Presidency on a failed cultural organization ORIGINALLY SET UP to serve THIS Town but one which, under his reign, became progressively corrupted as an Oro Valley organization. Along with his peculiarly questionable endorsements (yes, I can understand how these organizations can support Mr. Waters and Mr. Hornat, but Dr. Hiremath???), Dr. Hiremath appears NOT to be an Oro Valley loyalist but rather a somewhat furtive regionalist and I cannot accept that regionalism, under the heavy hand of a weak and heart needy Tucson, has done much good for Oro Valley.

Is Dr. Hiremath's personal life relevant? Judging from how patterns of commonly accepted behavior on a nationwide political scale are viewed, I would have to agree that, at least politically, it must be a consideration on a local level also. Leadership requires certain STANDARDS of conduct because conduct indicates a commitment to a type of order. If commitment is compromised on one particular level then how can we expect that it not be such on another?

Yes, Dr. Hiremath is an amiable and intelligent professional and is well liked personally by those who appear to know him well. But, likeability and professional intelligence are not the only important attributes necessary for a successful leader and it bothers me that likeability and professional intelligence are seemingly the only qualifications Dr. Hiremath can truly claim.

I do not profess that I agree with each and every other candidate on the stands that they might take nor do I walk in concert with this 'blog'. I see what I see, I hear what I hear, I think what I think
and I speak what I speak.

artmarth said...

Jay D--- First point. Quoting you.

"Art, for the education of your readers, could you please explain this comment you made: "The mayor only has one vote, but many more responsibilities than a council member." Personally, I'd love to know how many more responsibilities the mayor has and what they are specifically."

I asked Mike Zinkin if he knew what are the specific "Powers & Duties of the Mayor?"

Mike said, "Of course I do," and proceeded to tell me.

I suggest YOU ask Satish Hiremath. Let him tell you.

For the benefit of others, here's the answer.

TOWN CODE

The powers and duties of the Mayor shall include the following:

1. The Mayor shall be the Chief Executive Officer of the Town.

2. The Mayor shall be the Chairperson of the Council and preside over its meetings. The Mayor may make and second motions and shall have a voice and vote in all its proceedings.

3. The Mayor shall enforce the provisions of this Code.

4. The Mayor shall execute and authenticate by his/her signature such instruments as the Council or any statutes, ordinances, or this Code shall require.

5. The Mayor shall make such recommendations and suggestions to the Council as is considered proper.

6. The Mayor may, by proclamation, declare a local emergency to exist due to fire, conflagration, flood, earthquake, explosion, war, bombing, or any other natural or man-made calamity or disaster or in the event of threat or occurrence of riot, rout, or affray or other acts of civil disobedience which endanger life or property within the Town. After such declaration of such emergency, the Mayor shall govern by proclamation and impose all necessary regulations to preserve the peace and order of the Town, including but not limited to:

a. Imposition of a curfew in all or any portion of the Town.

b. Ordering the closing of any business.

c. Closing to public access any public building, street, or other public place.

d. Calling upon regular or auxiliary law enforcement agencies and organizations within or without the political subdivision for assistance.

7. The Mayor shall perform such other duties required by state statute and this Code as well as those duties required as Chief Executive Officer of the Town.

artmarth said...

Jay D--- You made the following statement:

"There are too many running threads throughout this blog that I believe are incorrect. For instance, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Dr. Hiremath will raid the contingency fund. And by the way, did you all read in the recent Explorer that "Oro Valley finance officials have given the town council a preview of the fiscal 2011 budget, a spending plan anticipated to come in balanced." So this means there will be NO raiding of the contingency fund by anyone!"

When you ask Hiremath if he knows the powers & duties of the mayor's position, ask him his position on the contingency fund.

Had you attended any the prior candidate forums, you would have heard Satish say he WILL USE CONTINGENCY FUNDS TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.

Are we not to believe his words?

You may not realize it, but the only way the 2010-2011 preliminary budget came in balanced is a result of our contingency fund being diminished by millions of dollars. Whose to say, Hiremath will do anything other than vote to use these "rainy day" funds if he is elected? After all, that's his plan.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

You said, "I see nothing that leads me to believe that Dr. Hiremath will raid the contingency fund."

Hiremath stated at at least one forum (maybe all of them, I can't remember) that he would balance the budget by taking money from the contingency fund.

It's irritating to me that you suspect that Art is making this up merely because YOU didn't hear Hiremath say it. Well, hundreds of other people did, including me.

It's also irritating that you plan to vote for Hiremath when you apparently don't know very much about where he stands on the issues. (eg. you didn't know how he planned to balance the budget.)

You also asked Art to tell you the specific responsibilities of being Mayor. So on one hand, you believe that Hiremath is the most qualified candidate for Mayor, yet on the other hand, you do not know what the Mayor does! So how can you be sure that he has the best qualifications for the job?

Jay D said...

This blog continues to be full of inaccuracies, accusations, and attacks. Art, you said "Had you attended any the prior candidate forums, you would have heard Satish say he WILL USE CONTINGENCY FUNDS TO BALANCE THE BUDGET." I attended EVERY candidate forum!

Sadly, I don't see any attempt by Art or VC to have an intelligent conversation, but rather to point fingers.

I am not going to argue one way or the other whether using the contingency fund to help balance the budget makes sense. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with any of you. But just for the sake of argument, I'd love to know how Art or VC pays off a large credit card debt (assuming this ever happens to you), if the money is not in your checking account. Do you suppose you would consider using money in your savings to pay off the debt?

Is using the contingency fund the right way to balance the budget? Maybe, maybe not...but any good council member or mayor would look at all options. Unfortunately, you all seem to immediately discount options without considering them.

Art, one way to provide a service to your readers would be to offer facts, rather than just continue to attack posters. I asked you to post information regarding the mayor's duties. You attacked me first, then listed them. Why?

Now I suggest you detail the town's use of the contingency fund...How much was used? How much is left? How much is the town required to keep in the fund?

Educating your readers would make more sense than attacking them!

VC, you must think you can read my mind. You are irritated with me because you think I said that Art is making things up. Nowhere did I say that he was making things up! You are irritated with me because you think I don't know where Dr. Hiremath stands on the issues. How do you know that? You sound like a very irritated person...It's a shame you can not have a discussion without such anger.

Finally, VC, you said this: "You also asked Art to tell you the specific responsibilities of being Mayor. So on one hand, you believe that Hiremath is the most qualified candidate for Mayor, yet on the other hand, you do not know what the Mayor does!" I did NOT say I am unaware of the duties of the mayor. Asking Art to describe the duties, so his readers would be informed, does not mean I don't know them! Your assumptions are ridiculous. Your anger toward me is uncalled for.

artmarth said...

OVDad--- I'm finished with trying to "educate you." You talk about my "inaccurate" statements.

Was I "inaccurate" by pointing out Hiremath's statement about the contingency fund?

For your information, I was brought up to learn if you can't afford to pay for something you learn to live without it. Therefore, I have NO credit card debt. Am I lucky? No, just knowing how to live within my means.

Too bad Satish doesn't think that way when it comes to Oro Valley finances.

As for your other questions; attend council meetings, read the minutes, study the General Plan, learn the town codes, then you won't need to ask me.

If that's asking to much of you, ask Hiremath. That way,you'll find out how much he knows or doesn't know about our town government.

artmarth said...

My apologies. My last comment should have been in response to "JayD"---not "OVDad."

It must have been the late hour.

Nombe Watanabe said...

Blog Masters. You are not posting all appropriate submissions.

Astute gal said...

I've been reading this for some time, but have not contributed until now (be nice to me, OK?).

The fact is that in a general law city like OV, the Mayor has NO special powers. He or she is just one of seven council members.

Therefore, the best qualification that one should have is the ability to count to four. This means establishing trusting relationships with others on the Council, allowing spirited debate, and listening to the concerns of all Council members.

You'll have to decide which of the candidates has the potential to do this because, outside of making proclamations and declaring emergencies, the Mayor has almost no authority to do anything else.

freedom fighters said...

I smell a Cass Sunstein wannabe on this thread.

Chuck Davis said...

Seems to me that we need a debate to allow the candidates one last chance at discussing their differences. I would be happy to help to arrange if Satish would provide assistance from one of his supporters.
I have arranged for a good venue and with the assistance of a Satish supporter, I am sure that we can agree on a good moderator.

Mike Zinkin is ready to meet. How about Satish?

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

First you said, "Personally, I'd love to know how many more responsibilities the mayor has and what they are specifically."

Key words: PERSONALLY and I'D.

THAT'S where I got the idea that you didn't know the Mayor's responsibilities. Therefore, my assumption that you didn't know the Mayor's responsibilities was not "ridiculous."

NOW you say, "I did NOT say I am unaware of the duties of the mayor." You didn't say those words exactly, but they were implied by what you DID say.

I think you're just embarrassed that you inadvertently admitted that you weren't all that clear on the Mayor's responsibilities.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

Now you claim that you never accused Art of making up the statement about the contingency fund.

Your exact words were, ""There are too many running threads throughout this blog that I believe are incorrect. For instance, I see nothing that leads me to believe that Dr. Hiremath will raid the contingency fund."

Since Art is the one who keeps mentioning on this blog that Hiremath will "raid the contingency fund" followed by you stating that you see nothing that leads you to believe this, it would follow that you suspected that Art was making this up.

If that's incorrect, then do tell us exactly what you meant by your statement, "I see nothing that leads me to believe that Dr. Hiremath will raid the contingency fund."

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

You asked, "I'd love to know how Art or VC pays off a large credit card debt (assuming this ever happens to you), if the money is not in your checking account."

The answer is that I NEVER IN MY LIFE have had ANY credit card debt, let alone a large one. My credit card is paid in full and on time every month. I don't buy anything unless I know I can pay for it within 30 days. If I can balance my own budget, then so can the government.

You said, "You are irritated with me because you think I don't know where Dr. Hiremath stands on the issues. How do you know that?"

I know that because you didn't know where he stood on the issue of how to balance the budget. This is a HUGE issue and yet you didn't know his position on it.

You said, "You sound like a very irritated person...It's a shame you can not have a discussion without such anger."

There is a difference between irritation and anger. There was no anger in my posting...irritation, yes...frustration, yes. But I have no reason to be angry with you. The anger was your perception.

artmarth said...

Nombe--- ??? Was something you submitted not posted? I don't think so. Only a "handful" have not, almost exclusively from one "past" blogger.

Astute gal---Welcome. Your point is well taken, but the question was ---What are the special duties of the mayor.

You might also want to know that Mike Zinkin is on record of saying if there is a 6-1 vote, and he's the "one"--he accepts that and moves on. Mike knows how to lead, how to get along with others, and how to treat all as equals. He is very qualified to be our mayor.

Nombe Watanabe said...

ART: Could be my fault, maybe I hit erase instead of send.

Due to my advancing age I don't remember what I wrote. Something like this;

OV Dad, do think Dr. H has the wherewithal to be mayor?

a. Dr. H hates meetings, too boring.
b. Travelling Dancer reports Dr. H fell asleep at a council meeting.

If you want the pain of public office, you have to have an DEEP, PRESSING, OVER POWERING desire to become a public officer. I do not see such ambition in Dr. H. In fact, I think the puppet charge may have some merit.

Sorry this post was lost, it may have been better the first time.

N. Watanabe

Jay D said...

VC, I am going to try to refrain from posting on this blog, but have to respond to you. Please stop thinking that you know what's in my head. Your interpretation of my words is incorrect. I thought it would be helpful to have an intelligent discussion, have Art post pertinent information, and allow for thoughtful responses. Instead, you continue to attack. The last thing I am is embarrassed by anything I have said.

I suggest that you, VC, and others on this blog attempt to have intelligent conversations. Is that even possible?

Sheldon said...

Like Astute Gal, I have been reading this blog for some time now, but have posted only once previously. As a person with a graduate degree in psychology, I find the lack of civility displayed in this blog equivalent to that which is going on in our society today. It seems that not only is the civility lacking on this blog, but a serious gang mentality has developed. I would ask those of you who post negative, rather than constructive comments, if you would speak the same way in person to the people you criticize or question. The anonymity this blog affords allows each of you to post in a way that you may not do if you sat at the same table with the other posters.

Maybe the key here is to discover the intent and purpose of this blog. If the intent is to provide a vehicle for discussion, some work must be done to improve that possibility, since as of now, little discussion is evident. If the intent is disseminate information to the readers, a more constructive, productive, socially appropriate approach should be initiated.

Many of the posts tend to be very passive aggressive, which is certainly counterproductive to effective communication.

In layman's terms, stop acting like middle schoolers!

Desert Voice said...

OV Dad, Jay D,

What are the qualities of Dr. Hiremath that make you think he should be TOV's next Mayor?

Zee,

Succinct, insightful, with a potentially very scarey outcome!

Chuck,

You sound poised, ready to deliver the Mayoral candidates'debate. The only thing missing is Hiremath's go ahead. Hmmm! Now isnt' that interesting.

Zev,

Welcome back! Your three cents are worth gold. Thank you.

VC,

Your posts are so rational, informed and clearly stated. If only Jay D had the capacity to absorb all you are saying.

Nombe,

Loved your summary of Hiremath's qualifiers. Crystal clear.

Hiremath, Hornat and Waters' supporters have still not articulated their strengths. Voters need a debate to see them in person and decide.

travelling dancer said...

After reading all these blogs, I noticed something interesting. Dr. Hiremath has always been his own boss, not accountable to a higher authority. He does what he thinks is best for Himself. One individual stated, that he is just one of seven, which requires a TEAM PLAYER, which he has shown he is not. Example, not attending Council meetings, only when He needed some funding for His project. Texting while at an educational meeting, then departing after lunch, before the afternoon session of the meeting was concluded. As President of GOVAC he had trouble managing the budget.

Mike, on the other hand is a team player, he has both worked as a member of a team, coached and been a line person and management. He has had more successful experience in knowing how to lead and work cooperatively with others. That takes an individual who can think for himself and also take in CONSIDERATION of others.

Desert Voice said...

"Sheldon",

From one graduate mental health provider to another, when has "civility" become a model of mental health?

Understanding, articulating one's feelings and controlling them might be a healthier goal to reach for. Yes, you may have noticed that people who blog regularly are passionate about their topics...They/we feel, they/we care, they/we articulate, they/we want change and growth...The goal of therapy is to put the patient in touch with feelings in order to make conscious decisions. It is not the absence of feeling but recognizing them, directing them. Change in society evolves from someone's passions not civility.

Issues aired on LOVE affect people deeply. They/we care. They/we debate. They/we "handle" the opposition's equally ardent objections. Blog discussion is a lively, active, noisey place. However, it is not always comfortable. Change never is.But then you know that.

If you are uncomfortable in such a forum, why do you participate? Isn't that somewhat self-destructive--your lingo?

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OV Dad says, "The hatred towards the business community...that this blog exhibits..."

Jay D says, "Your anger toward me is uncalled for."

Yet none of us have ever used the words hatred or anger.

I said, "It's irritating to me that you SUSPECT..."

I said, "You APPARENTLY don't know very much about...."

Notice that I choose my words carefully so as not to offend anyone. I didn't say that you ACCUSED Art, I said SUSPECTED. I didn't say that you DEFINITELY didn't know where Hiremath stood, I said APPARENTLY you didn't know.

Somehow this gets turned into I'm/We're angry, full of hatred, making accusations. Try reading what is actually written and responding to that instead of magnifying it into something else entirely so you can "attack" that instead and never have to bother actually responding to the point that was being made.

I always find that when someone cannot defend their statements, they deal with it by trying to make the other person look bad. Instead, why not try to defend your statements on their merit alone?

Desert Voice said...

V Cowgirl,

Well said.

As the vernacular suggests, "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your ____ ___". Politely their subterfuge might be dubbed emotional rhetoric without foundation.

Nombe Watanabe said...

SHELDON: I, also with a degree in Psychology, have always had a lot of fun with my passive aggressive behavior.

Here is my slogan for Dr. H:

Yo, Satish, if you snooze, you lose!

NW.

Gang behavior indeed. This is the wild west of blogging. Diversity, debate, occasional nonsense (brought to you by yours truly, Nombe Watanabe) get over it and join in. Fight for your right to party. If you can't be passive aggressive, at least be aggressive.

Jay D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Victorian Cowgirl said...

Traveling Dancer mentioned in her last post that Hiremath was texting during an educational meeting and then departed after lunch.

I just got some more information on this subject.

The meeting she refers to was the all-day budget retreat held on Jan. 23rd. Those in attendance saw Hiremath texting throughout the morning session rather than paying attention to what was going on. He did not return for the afternoon session after the lunch break.

So does this mean that:

(1) He is DISINTERESTED in learning the process.

(2) He was too busy with other things and DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME to commit to the budget retreat.

(3) The process/meeting/retreat was "TOO FRUSTRATING" and so he left.

Just wondering.

And I'm curious to see how Jay D and OV Dad and all the rest of the Hiremath cheerleaders will spin this.

Oro Valley Mom said...

"What new sources of revenue should Oro Valley examine?"

Satish Hiremath: "Short term solution would be to change the policy use on contingency reserves so that the overage we have could be used to help offset the current deficit immediately."

--http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2010/02/12/news/doc4b71e4d266768219353536.prt

That is called spending more than you take in. It is generally recognized as fiscally irresponsible. I can't imagine why the tea partiers, conservatives, Republicans, or anybody else would endorse this.

When asked about funding for outside organizations:

"Zinkin suggested the groups should be paid only if they bring results in the form of jobs..."

"'This pay-for-performance, it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths,' Hiremath said."

--http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2010/02/04/news/doc4b68b87d2cd20825274849.txt

Hiremath wants to give your tax dollars, including your hard-earned savings, to outside organizations without expecting anything in return.

That concept has been called many things by many people, including corporate welfare or social welfare. Again, I can't imagine why the tea partiers, conservatives, Republicans, or anybody else would endorse this.

freedom fighters said...

Do we have a mayoral debate or not? Please keep us posted.

artmarth said...

Freedom fighters and other readers--- It takes two to debate. Mike Zinkin is ready, willing and able.

it appears the Special Interest Groups supporting Satish Hiremath do not feel too confident in allowing him to go "head to head" with Mike.

The offer is out there waiting on Hiremath's acceptance.

To be perfectly honest, Hiremath is probably smart avoiding debating Mike. He'd lose on knowledge, experience and positions.

Nombe Watanabe said...

and sleep

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Well, it's been 48 hours and there is a conspicuous lack of response from OV Dad, Jay D, et al. in spinning the latest Hiremath "mistake" into something positive.

C'mon guys, please tell us why texting during the morning session and disappearing for the afternoon session was the right thing to do.

If Zinkin had done this, you would be all over him!

As Desert Voice often says...the silence is deafening.

Jay D said...

Just a quick response to VC's "concern" that there is a conspicuous lack of response from me...I have chosen NOT to respond or post anymore on this blog. Personally, I find the blog to be dysfunctional, biased, and broken. There is little to no discussion, just subjective comments.

VC, the irony of what you said "As Desert Voice often says...the silence is deafening," makes me laugh. There is no "listening" on this board, silence or not.

I choose not to participate.

artmarth said...

JayD--- If you are ever in the need for more "good laughs," or feel you have "something of substance" to add to our "dysfunctional, biased, and broken" blog, feel free to come back.

Please note---- This offer is not made to everybody.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

You said you have left this blog because, "There is little to no discussion, just subjective comments." Yet, I offered you a chance to "discuss" my post and my observation. It is YOU who declined to offer a follow-up discussion.

Perhaps you only want "discussion" when you have a credible argument to offer, but when you don't.....you conveniently disappear.

Of note, is that none of the other Hiremath cheerleaders have come to his defense on this matter either. What's THEIR excuse?

OV Dad can't claim that he has also decided to stop blogging since he just left a post on another thread. So what's HIS reason for not defending Hiremath on this one?

Rhetorical question.

OVDad said...

Here is my answer to what you say: I wasn't there. I have texted during meetings and paid attention at the same time, so I don't care even if it happened. I didn't see it happen. I don't trust you enough to believe you. While I don't think you would pull this out of the blue, I do think you would be very prone to completely exaggerate it. That's why I chose not to dignify it with a response.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OV Dad,

So you didn't respond to the "texting" portion of my post because you think I exaggerated it. Why didn't you respond to the "absent in the afternoon" portion?

How could I exaggerate that he didn't return for the afternoon session? That's "black and white." He was either there or he wasn't.

Desert Voice said...

OV Dad,

You just made a point..."I don't care..." Blog posters CARE how dedicated a candidate shows himself to be about the single most important challenge for the Council. Hiremath considers his texting and his afternoon schedule more important than educating himself for the job.

OV Dad, Zinkin consistently spoke the truth about his funders. McNamara's article yesterday demonstrated that. It is YOUR backers who misrepresented the facts. You have reason not to trust YOUR supporters.

Thank you, VC, for reiterating "the silence is deafening" from Hiremath, Waters and Hornat camp about their qualifications for the job. If I were SH, LW or JH, I'd quickly coach some loyal supporter to sing my praises.This is now the fifth month of the campaign and there are NO STATEMENTS of what their platforms are or comparisons with other candidates. Is there silence a statement that they expect to take this election through backroom deals alone?

Their silence also shows their disregard for constituents' desire to know by refusing to answer. Voters beware! Those three are not going to factor in what you think.
SH, LW, JH won't even tell you why they are better qualified. Observe their behavior and vote for someone who wants to represent YOU.

OVDad said...

DV, VC:

I am glad to see that this all matters to you now, when it did not matter to you when you cast your vote for Don Emmons, who was the one council candidate that put forth the least effort in the primary.

And unlike Emmons while he ran, all of the candidates have websites, where - since you are obviously able to go online - you can read up on their positions. And for your challenge of those positions not being concrete enough, please compare them with Mike Zinkin's because I find absolutely no difference in terms of concreteness.

Furthermore, this blog by its nature is very one-sided. Your "their silence is deafening" is a statement comparable to "I did not hear any reasons to support the health care bill at the tea party convention I went to." Why don't you go to the many people that have their yard signs out for those candidates you dislike and ask them? That would make a bit more sense. DV - I further doubt that those candidates see this blog of such a threat to their candidacy that they would feel it necessary to revert to the tactics you have called for.

The monitoring of the comments has led to the departure of multiple challengers to the opinion of this blog. People that have never commented before have spoken out against that policy. I don't mean to imply that Art or The Zeeman are keeping them out - my comments have all gotten posted even though they must hate them. Yet, people have left, probably out of frustration about the lack of discourse.

Desert Voice said...

OV Dad,

Sounds like it's too much effort, effort not worth making for the candidates or their supporters to articulate their positions. "I don't care..." rings loudly here.

The history of politics resonates in person forums, debates, head to head on issues, seeing, hearing, meeting and greeting the Candidates. Has something changed?

If "in person" discussions do not occur, how will the voters assess how well each candidate can "motivate a group of people to act towards a common goal"?

If constituents have questions for their elected officials after the election, can we expect that Hiremath, Hornat, Waters will turn their backs on voters, refuse to discuss issues, run away or only answer online?

Surely, we deserve more service than that for our tax dollars.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OV Dad,

Glad that you brought up Emmons in reference to candidates missing meetings. THAT is precisely the reason that I keep asking you (and others) to defend Hiremath's absence during the afternoon portion of the budget retreat.

You will notice that when Emmons missed those two debates, a VALID REASON was given both times. First time was for a family medical emergency and second time was for a veterinary emergency.

And even though BOTH of these absences were for medical emergencies, the bloggers who didn't like him acted as though an absence for a medical emergency was not a valid reason.

Hence, I keep asking the Hiremath cheerleaders to defend HIS absence. I find it interesting that NOT ONE OF YOU has offered an explanation (valid or otherwise) for his early departure.

So why was it so important to you when Emmons was absent but it's not important to you that Hiremath was absent?

My point here is that if Hiremath had a valid reason, and you defend that reason, then you of course are a hypocrite since Emmons' valid reasons were still considered a strike against him.

And if Hiremath did NOT have a valid reason for leaving early (family emergency, dental emergency) then why aren't you questioning HIS seriousness as a candidate?

I'm just looking for some consistency in arguments.

Desert Voice said...

VC,

Well articulated, well developed posting...

It seems that OV Dad revealed his position when he wrote, "I don't care..."

Double talk comes from OV Dad, from Hiremath.