Friday, April 23, 2010

"Politics Is A Dirty Business" Shame On Satish For Proving It!

It's been said, "Politics Is A Dirty Business."

Satish Hiremath in his mailer sent out to thousands of Oro Valley voters today, proved that old saying.

How offensive it is for Hiremath to blatantly lie when he says in his flyer:

"As the one candidate for mayor who has taken a position in opposition to a property tax,Dr. Hiremath knows that a successful business climate is essential to avoid new taxes."

MIKE ZINKIN SUPPORTS THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND DOES NOT SUPPORT AN ORO VALLEY PROPERTY TAX.


Read Mike's own words.

AZ Daily Star Feb 18,2010 Should the town put the question of a property-tax levy before voters? Why or Why not?

MIKE ZINKIN response to Az Star---

"With so many of our residents on fixed incomes, facing job losses or struggling to pay their bills, it would be premature and irresponsible to even consider a property tax until we've reduced spending dramatically. There are a multitude of things we can do right now to reduce the cost of government."


*************************************************************************************
The Explorer Feb 10, 2010 Would you put a property tax question on the ballot for voter approval? Why or why not?
_
Mike Zinkin response to The Explorer---

"There cannot be any property tax without voter approval. At this time, with so many of our residents on fixed incomes, facing job losses, or struggling to pay their bills, it would be premature and irresponsible to even consider a property tax. If 10 years ago the cost of government was $1,700 per resident, and now government costs $4,600 per resident, that indicates that there is a lot of excess. We must be fiscally responsible and separate our wants from our needs."
*************************************************************************************

Further more, On Saturday, October 24, 2009 we did a posting:

"Mike Zinkin: No Property Tax"

Mayoral candidate Mike Zinkin has issued a statement regarding Property Taxes for Oro Valley. Mike says no. An excerpt from Mike's statement:

"Mayor Loomis recently stated that Oro Valley needs a Property Tax. While it is true that Development Fees, Sales Tax Revenue, and State Shared Revenue is down dramatically, do we really need a Property Tax, or any other Tax, to balance our budget? My answer is NO"


SHAME ON SATISH!

29 comments:

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Where did Satish get the idea that he is the ONE CANDIDATE for mayor who is against the property tax?

Has he not been paying attention? Perhaps he was texting during the candidate forums when Zinkin stated his position of being AGAINST a property tax.

Maybe he fell asleep while reading the Explorer article where Zinkin said that a property tax would be "premature and irresponsible."

Or perhaps he realizes that Zinkin's credentials far outweigh his own so now he is going to lie his way to victory.

Or perhaps he's been getting advice on how to eliminate the opposition from Paul Loomis who is now endorsing Hiremath. After all, Loomis is an expert in this area. Remember how he "eliminated" Dave Andrews?

So again I ask all the Hiremath cheerleaders who defend everything this man does...how do you defend this one? How do you defend this outright LIE?

jason said...

Art-

I wrote no long ago to explain my thoughts on why the Golder Ranch firefighter's union would back Hiremath. There were several comments that followed that asked why Golder Ranch Fire District would support a mayor for Oro Valley when the two governments are separate and distinct agencies.

I received the answer in the mail today. Golder Ranch Fire District serves Oro Valley, Catalina, Saddle Brook, and unincorporated areas of Pima County. In the mailer that Zinkin sent to residents it states that he intends to follow the General Plan adopted by Oro Valley voters.

Interesting. The General plan states the following:

"FIRE PROTECTION AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE
Fire protection and emergency response services in the Planning Area are provided by the Golder Ranch Fire District, Northwest Fire District, and Rural Metro Fire Department. Some interest has been expressed for the Town to assume responsibility
for these services. There is strong interest in the Town ensuring that a high standard of response is available at equitable rates uniformly throughout Oro Valley."

Therein is the union's interest. If the Town of Oro Valley follows the General Plan and establishes its own fire department, it effectively disrupts Golder Ranch Fire District as it stands today. It would shrink it. This is the interest Golder Ranch firefighters have in supporting Hiremath.

As you know, I understand the fire service well. I can tell you that I can't stand unionism and hold to the belief that unions are doing great harm to communities across the US. Having said that, Golder Ranch Fire District provides and exceptional service to the residents of OV at a bargain. Comparatively, I challenge you to find another fire district in this state that provides the level of service, training, and care that GRFD does at the same tax rate. You can't, because they don't exist.

Look at OV PD. They are a huge tax burden on the residents of OV. Oro Valley does not want its own fire department because it will drain the town. Fire departments and police departments represent the largest portions of any city or town's budget.

I would suggest that Zinkin carefully evaluate his statement that he will follow the General Plan. Plans change with time and as new information or environments change, it is worth considering the statement about following the General Plan in regards to public safety.

Rural Metro may have saved a bit of money, but they are a far inferior organization. As I said, I can't stand unions. I loathe them. I understand good fire protection and emergency medical service, and GRFD is providing that in spades. Any intent of OV to start its own FD would be a mistake and if that's the route ZInkin intends to take without reconsidering the current economic environment, it would be a great mistake.

Long story short, unions stink but GRFD is a great fire department for the cost and OV would be moving backward to start its own fire department.

travelling dancer said...

VC,

You hit the nail on the head. A friend of mine attend a meeting at the Sun City Republican Club and stated that Hiremath implied that if you didn't vote for him there would be a Property Tax with Mike Zinkin.. I told her that was ridiculous, I couldn't imagine Dr.Hiremath making such a statement. It would make him appear oblivious to what was going on around him. She replied, " oh yes it was true and she wasn't the only individual that heard him say that". Well, many of those individuals have attended the various Forums and heard Mike state that he was not in favor of a Property Tax.

Perhaps he was also texting at the Forums and didn't hear the other Candidates' responses to the questions, which shows a lack of interest. Do we want a Mayor whose other activities are more important and what he is thinking is more important than what the other Council Members might say, after all, we don't want a Dictator or does he have another agenda?

The Zee Man said...

You don't defend a "lie". You simply tell it often enough that people believe it.

Imagine the kind of Mayor he will be.

Get the word out. Zinkin is the man of the people.

artmarth said...

Jason--- Thanks again for your comment.

If I may, let me respond, as I believe you have some inaccuracies noted.

As of now, there are two Fire Districts that have been approved to service the needs of OV. One is GRFD, as you mentioned. The other is Mountain Vista Fire District in the southern tier.

As to the fire union supporting some candidates, it is NOT GRFD, but members of the union, including some that work for GRFD, including its Captain Dan Clement, the President of the union.

Also, keep in mind, although we should totally abide by the General Plan, and that is Mike Zinkin's position, the portion alluding to OV starting its own fire service----although it's not obsolete, it is certainly dated information, going back a good number of years.

There has been no official talk about OV going into the fire service for at least 6 years now.
If nothing else, that may be one area of the General Plan (there are a few) that require updating.

As to GRFD & its ---as you state---"exceptional service to the residents of OV at a bargain," I would argue that point---but not here & now.

We certainly agree on your take on the OV police union and its "huge tax burden on the residents of OV."

Summarizing----I can assure you, Mike Zinkin will follow the General Plan, but will understand there instances, such as the portion you noted, that need to be revised. One example is when it talks about fire service providers that are not providers.

In any case, thanks again for your input and insight.

artmarth said...

I received the following email from Mike Zinkin last night. Mike gave me authorization to put it on the blog, to acknowledge his error in using the town logo in his literature.

As a result of Mike's self proclaimed error, he will need to discard some 3000 fliers he had hoped to use in his effort to get elected Mayor of Oro Valley.

Here's Mike's email.
-----------------------------------

Art,

I am sure some of your bloggers are going to make an issue about the fact that I utilized the Town Seal on my recent postcard. I was advised today (4/23) that in doing so was against Town policy. We were all handed out candidate information and I completely forgot about this violation.

I take full responsibility for this oversight and sincerely hope that this does not "smoke" the many other important issues at hand.

Sincerely,

Mike Zinkin
___________________________________

By the way, this was an honest mistake on Mike's part. What wasn't an honest mistake was Hiremath's fliers inferring he is the only one against a Property Tax. That is an outright lie!

John Martin said...

While it's perhaps fair game to say Hiremath may have skirted the issue that Zinkin also doesn't favor a property tax (I think voters can determine that for themselves), I believe Zinkin made a serious error in judgment with his use of the town seal on his latest mailing. While he acknowledges the error, and says it was inadvertent (I'll take him at his word), I think the two perceived transgressions have to cancel themselves out. Especially when one considers what state law has to say about "deceptive mailings."

Read what I've included, which is copied directly from the Arizona Revised Statutes:

"16-925. Deceptive mailings; civil penalty
A. In an attempt to influence the outcome of an election, an individual or committee shall not deliver or mail any document that falsely purports to be a mailing authorized, approved, required, sent or reviewed by or that falsely simulates a document from the government of this state, a county, city or town or any other political subdivision.
B. An individual or committee that violates this section is liable for a civil penalty equal to twice the total of the cost of the mailing or five hundred dollars, whichever is greater. The attorney general, the county attorney, the city or town attorney or other legal representative of the political subdivision, as appropriate, may assess the civil penalty."

Victorian Cowgirl said...

John Martin,

What Zinkin did was an honest mistake and he immediately apologized for it. I received the flier in question. I read the content of the flier and never even noticed the town seal. If Zinkin's goal in using the seal was to "attempt to influence the outcome of an election" then I'm sure that the seal would have been much more prominently displayed. As I said, I never even noticed it.

The "serious error in judgment" came from Hiremath who deliberately lied about Zinkin's position on a property tax. Why else would he do this other than to "attempt to influence the outcome of an election."

artmarth said...

John--- Sorry I didn't respond to your comment sooner, but "Cowgirl" saw fit to do so.

I would say this, your statement---"I think the two perceived transgressions have to cancel themselves out," doesn't seem to be at all appropriate.

Why not compare a person who mugged an older woman, with a guy who stole a bottle of wine?

Hiremath's "transgression" was the former. Mike's was the latter, comparatively speaking.

Hiremath lied! Zinkin had an acknowledged oversight.

Perhaps the "good dentist" will send us a comment, if not directly, then through one of his many supporters, explaining his "transgression."

John Martin said...

Art: Zinkin broke the law, regardless of intention.

Hiremath claims to unequivocally oppose a property tax.

Meanwhile, in the two statements you posted of Zinkin's response to the tax question, he equivocates (though I accept that he doesn't want a property tax). Maybe not fair politics on Hiremath's part, but it is what it is.

Lying is never about intent. It's about action. So, to posit that Hiremath "intentionally" lied, which you do, is one thing.

Zinkin, oversight or not, "lied" as well, when through the use of the town seal created the impression that his message was somehow officially sanctioned.

I can accept that you see a distinction. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I say both played it fast and loose with the facts. I cannot draw a distinction when it comes which "truth" or "lie" is worse. It's either true or false. Just my opinion.

Glad we can cordially disagree. Thanks.

racer said...

At least Dr Hiremath hasn't broken campaign laws like Mr. Zimkin using the town logo on his flyer is a violation.

I believe that the use of the Oro Valley Town Logo by Mike Zinkin in his campaign literature has violated the trademark infringement laws and the campaign laws of the state of Arizona. This is a serious violation however per the town clerk, there is nothing they are going to do about it other than to tell him not to do it again.





Arizona Statutes

16-925. Deceptive mailings; civil penalty

A. In an attempt to influence the outcome of an election, an individual or committee shall not deliver or mail any document that falsely purports to be a mailing authorized, approved, required, sent or reviewed by or that falsely simulates a document from the government of this state, a county, city or town or any other political subdivision.


E. A person who violates this section is subject to a civil penalty of up to three times the cost of producing and distributing the literature or advertisement. This civil penalty shall be imposed as prescribed in section 16-924.



Can we expect to see him ignoring the law if he is elected.

artmarth said...

John--- I'll have to agree with the "cowgirl."

Let's be reasonable. Can anyone rationally believe that Mike Zinkin was trying to get people to vote for him because he had the town logo on his flyer?

On the other hand, think about this:

Hiremath claims he is the ONLY candidate opposed to a property tax.

There is NO JUSTIFICATION for that, other than trying to "steal" votes from the opposition.

You're correct on one thing. We do NOT agree on this one.

As for racer, you seem to know all about this situation. Perhaps you were the one to file the complaint against Mike, as we know who the individuals are that would have something to gain by doing so.

Don't even think about a lie to get votes as being comparable to inadvertently using a town logo.

Most reasonable people will see right through your intentions.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

John Martin,

I'm not sure why you think that lying is never about intent. It's always about intent. The man who tells his wife that he was at a company meeting when he was really with his mistress, is lying with the intent of keeping his affair a secret. The teenager who tells his father, "That's not my pot. I was holding it for a friend" is lying with the intent of avoiding punishment for using drugs. And politicians lie all the time with the intent of either covering up something they've done or with the intent of taking votes from their opponent.

Racer,

You said, "At least Hiremath hasn't broken campaign laws." This raises two questions:

(1) Why did you not respond to what Hiremath did until AFTER you discovered that Zinkin had used the logo in error? Not one member of the Hiremath fan club, yourself included, made any attempt at all to respond to my first post on this stream. Not one person defended Hiremath's lie, but now you come out of hiding to try to create a diversion from the lie by pointing fingers at Zinkin instead.

(2) If you think that anything (including lying) is acceptable as long as it doesn't break any campaign law, I wonder what you would have said had you received a flier from Zinkin that read...

"As the one candidate for mayor who has not fathered children out of wedlock..."

Not only would that not have violated campaign laws, but it also would have been the truth. And am I to believe that you wouldn't have been offended by this?

(NOTE: I personally don't care what Hiremath does in his personal life. I use this only as an example of how dirty politics could have been used by Zinkin as well, but HE rose about it!)

Victorian Cowgirl said...

I would also like to remind everyone that Terry Parish repeatedly used his title as Vice Mayor in an attempt to influence the outcome of the vote on the Vestar EDA. "Repeatedly" is the key word here.

When Parish's judgment was questioned in this regard, he ignored it and continued to speak for Vestar in his role as Vice Mayor. In contrast, Zinkin offered an immediate apology and ceased using the fliers in question.

Zinkin has integrity. And as the situation currently stands, Hiremath does not.

OinStarr said...

What was the point of using the town's logo in the first place, accidental or not? In my mind it was used to give official stature.

All campaign material is carefully reviewed for content and effect. So again, I ask, what was the planned effect for the use of the logo.

Casual Observer said...

I am new at this so please bear with me.

If you are against a property tax or against anything you don't use "premature". That indicates that it is just too early for it to happen.

Maybe that is where the confusion comes from.

artmarth said...

Casual Observer---Isn't it more prudent, and more honest to say, as Mike did --- quoting him: "At this time--- it would be premature and irresponsible to even consider a property tax."

Mike goes on to say that--"We must be fiscally responsible and separate our wants from our needs."

That's a far cry from the other candidate who thinks it is prudent to raid our contingency fund to balance the budget.

You can be 100% sure that Mike Zinkin will not vote for a Property Tax until ever last option has been exhausted---and, you won't get to that point.

Mike comes across as honest, prudent, knowledgeable and fiscally responsible, all attributes the other candidate seems to lack.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OinStarr,

I will ask you the same question I asked Racer...

Why did you not respond to what Hiremath did until AFTER you discovered that Zinkin had used the logo in error?

Again, I repeat, not one member of the Hiremath fan club, yourself included, made any attempt at all to respond to my first post on this stream. Not one person defended Hiremath's lie, but now you come out of hiding to try to create a diversion from the lie by pointing fingers at Zinkin instead.

You asked, "What was the point of using the town's logo in the first place, accidental or not?" So let me tell you a story about the time my office used a logo that it shouldn't have.

I worked in an office that was on a hospital campus but the employees in my office were not on the hospital payroll. They were part of a separate medical practice, although our phone line and some other things WERE connected to the hospital. It was a new office and so one of the things we had to order was stationery. Three of the top level people in my office reviewed the stationery design before it went to the printer. All 3 approved it.

After we began using the stationery we were informed by someone from the hospital that we were not supposed to use the hospital logo. Yes, that info was included in a huge packet of materials we had received prior to opening the practice, but when you're brand new at this stuff and you have multiple things to do to get the office up and running (interview and hire staff, purchase office furniture, medical equipment, set up phone lines, order medical supplies, order office supplies, etc.) something is going to get overlooked in the process. In our case, using the logo was the one mistake we made. It happens. It was not deliberate and we were not trying to pull a fast one. So as someone who's been there, I understand how it can happen.

You said, "All campaign material is carefully reviewed for content and effect." Yes, and that means Hiremath's campaign also carefully reviewed the content of THEIR literature and saw nothing wrong with lying about Zinkin's position.

What was the "planned effect" for the use of the lie?

OinStarr said...

VC,

Answer the question about what was the intent, don't deflect.

What is the basis for your assumption that I support either candidate?

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OinStarr,

I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

Where did Satish get the idea that he is the ONE candidate for mayor who is against the property tax?

How do you defend this outright lie?

Why did you wait until after you learned of the error on Zinkin's part before you posted anything on this topic?

You tell me not to "deflect" yet that's EXACTLY what you and Racer have done.

This stream is about Hiremath's LIE, but you don't want to talk about that.

Desert Voice said...

V Cowgirl,

Great job raising consciousness about lying on SH's campaign postcards. "What you see is what you get!" Just like theft begins with small items, ie pens, pennies and grows in proportions, "a little white one", evolves into a full blown whopper!

How can you ever trust someone who has lied? I can't. Lies cast shadows on everything an individual says because you never know when he speaks candidly nor falsely.

It's one thing to strategize to successfully compete with one's opponent, but lying to do so is a statement in itself. It identifies the lack of moral foundation in the individual who lies. Is that what we need in OV gov?

Your job experience of inadvertently using the hospital logo on stationary was great. Accidents happen. Sounds like it was a financial expense for the medical service where you worked.
For Zinkin, a first time candidate in an election that may involve 50,000 voters when the Census finishes our new count, seems accidental, not calculated.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Desert Voice,

Your comment about using lying as a strategy being "a statement in itself" is true.

It says, "I can't win this election on the issues, and I can't win this election on my experience, and I can't win this election with the truth, so I'll just lie about my opponent's position on a hot-button issue."

arandomguy said...

Do we refer to Dr. Hiremath as "Satish" or "the good dentist" to diminish him personally? The people in obvious support of Mr. Zinkin always refer to him as Mike Zinkin or Mr. Zinkin. Well, I think that the "good retired air traffic controller" has a gang of thugs on this blog that immediately attack any dissenting opinions whether they have any merit or not. And I would point to the comments that I'm sure would be unleashed upon this particular opinion, however, I'm sure my comment will be censored out.

artmarth said...

arandomguy--- You wrote---"I'm sure my comment will be censored out."

Why would we censor out such an astute comment?

We always appreciate new bloggers that have something of substance to add.

OinStarr said...

VC,

I do not want to play a game of you answer my questions before I answer yours. I did not specifically ask you to respond to my question regarding Mr. Zinkin's planned effect for using the Town's logo on his mailer. Comments were made here because Art posted Mike's email here.

We have been told it was an honest mistake. Therefore, if Dr. Hiremath spoke an untruth, perhaps it was an honest mistake.

Travelling Dancer and others have made a big deal about Dr. Hiremath texting during a budget meeting earlier in the year. Yet he attended the budget session last weekend and Mr. Zinkin did not, but that doesn't seem to get a mention.

I'm still undecided where to put my "X" on the ballot for Mayor. Your statments are making it easier for me to decide.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

So along comes another one of Hiremath's supporters (arandomguy) who also tries to deflect from the topic of this stream (Hiremath's blatant lie) by avoiding that topic entirely and instead bringing up a new topic (how we address the candidates.)

Arandomguy, do you really think that how we bloggers address the candidates is a more important issue than Hiremath's blatant lie?

For the record, I usually refer to both candidates by their last name...Hiremath or Zinkin. I occasionally refer to them as Satish or Mike. I have never referred to either of them as Mr. So I am not guilty of trying to diminish anyone or elevate anyone by how I address them.

I know most of the Zinkin supporters on this site and I can assure you that none of us are "thugs" let alone a gang of them.

In contrast, while delivering Zinkin fliers door-to-door, my husband and I have been accosted by Hiremath supporters. Geez, all we're doing is leaving fliers at front doors. That hardly calls for the yelling and accusations that have been hurled at us while doing so. One irate woman actually followed my husband for an entire block screaming at him.

Contrast this to what my husband and I do when someone comes to our door with a flier for a candidate whom we do not like. If we happen to be outside when they show up, we politely tell them that we are voting for their opponent. We're civil, we smile, we don't make anyone feel unwelcome or threatened.

Your "thugs" comment was uncalled for. But it points out something that many of us on this blog have said for years. Whenever a person cannot defend their beliefs or they cannot answer your questions, they simply resort to name-calling instead.

Reread my posts on this stream. Did I resort to name-calling? No. I did, however, ask a few questions that none of Hiremath's supporters have been able to answer.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OinStarr,

You speak with forked tongue. I am quoting you exactly here. First you addressed a blog comment SPECIFICALLY to me. You said...

"VC, (Victorian Cowgirl)

Answer the question about what was the intent (of using the logo) don't deflect."

Now you claim that you...

"did not specifically ask you (Victorian Cowgirl) to respond to my question regarding Mr. Zinkin's planned effect for using the Town's logo on his mailer."

So, yes, you did specifically ask ME the question about Zinkin's intent.

You seem to think that his intent was to give the appearance of having town backing of his candidacy. So think about that. This would mean that his plan was to waste his campaign contributions on thousands of fliers that would be pulled the minute the town got wind of the use of the logo. He now has thousands of unusable campaign fliers. And I'm supposed to think that this was deliberate?

On the other hand, Hiremath's lie IS clearly deliberate since he has been repeating it and since he has had ample opportunity to hear Zinkin's position on a property tax. He has heard it verbally numerous times at candidate forums and has seen it in writing in the Explorer.

So he either hasn't been paying attention (just what we need in a Mayor) or he is deliberately lying in order to get his way (also just what we need in a Mayor).

Victorian Cowgirl said...

OinStarr,

You also asked me specifically...

"What is the basis for your assumption that I support either candidate?"

Here is the basis for my assumption:

(1) I haven't seen you write any negative comments about Hiremath. You have, however, written numerous negative comments about Zinkin.

(2) On this blog on March 24th, you stated that Zinkin's ability to work under stress as an air traffic controller meant nothing when applied to the job of mayor and that his ATC skills might only be needed when "those with model airplanes show up with their planes and they need instructions." You tried to minimize the skills needed by an ATC and how those skills can be transferred to other jobs.

(2) Also, on March 24th, you tried to minimize Zinkin's attendance at the Citizen's Planning Institute (which you admitted is "an overview of functions of the town") by stating that "no test is given" in order to pass. But you don't seem concerned that Hiremath didn't even show an interest in learning the functions of the town.

(3) On this blog on March 25th, you defended Snider's public endorsement of Hiremath-Waters-Hornat by saying, "she recognizes the individuals that want what is best for Oro Valley."

Ergo, you think Hiremath is best for Oro Valley.

Now you're trying to act like you never made any comments in support of either candidate and that you haven't decided whom to vote for yet. Why the sudden backing off of all your pro-Hiremath statements? Are you now beginning to question his honesty and integrity in light of the lies he is telling?

OVDad said...

VC. Points (1), (2), and (2) - as I am sure you will admit as well - do not logically show support for Hiremath. As such, your reasoning in these points is invalid. Your case would have been stronger if you only pointed to (3).