Sunday, March 28, 2010

Az Republic Asks If Sales Tax Hike Is Approved, Would It Be Temporary? We Doubt It!

Can anyone recall an imposed temporary tax that didn't somehow become permanent?

Read the Az Republic article about the vote to increase the state sales tax that will be on the May 18 ballot.

The good news is, the voters will decide.

Here's the article


Victorian Cowgirl said...

In the state where I used to live, the Governor talked the voters into approving a 1% sales tax increase that would be temporary, lasting only 6 months. Of course, 6 months later, not another word was said about it and the tax became permanent.

Eleanor said...

Really, which state was that?

Victorian Cowgirl said...

It doesn't matter WHERE it happened. It just matters THAT it happened.

Eleanor said...

Yeah - that's what I thought.

I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. So, unless you can say where and when it happened - don't expect thoughtful people to believe you.

This is the real world and thoughtful adults will actually ask follow-up questions to verify you aren't just making stuff up.

Nombe Watanabe said...
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The Zee Man said...

My guess is that the sales tax increase will be overwhelmingly voted down.

Most of us simply want our Governments, at all level, to be fiscally responsible.

Do like we do when we can't make ends meet: SPEND LESS.

Besides, the state property tax is about to come back. This was a "temporary thing" that won't go away.

Sort of like the Storm Water Tax on our Oro Valley Water bills. This was supposed to be temporary but it got renewed.

Never give the pols the right to tax you. It will just get worse and worse. They (the pols) simply don't care.

Nombe Watanabe said...

I think your correct Zee.

Jay D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay D said...

I apologize for the deleted comment...I did not proofread it well, so I had to remove it to make sure it read clearly...Here I go again: Very sad that the posters here apparently do NOT support education and the future of this state. A 1% sales tax will NOT hurt your pocket books nearly as much as not voting in favor of this increase and providing what the schools need! The governor has continuously cut education funding. (Victorian Cowgirl, if this sales tax became permanent, maybe the state would finally be able to fund some much-needed programs!) Did you know that this state ranks 49th in education funding in the nation? That's atrocious! Before you decide to vote against this measure on the ballot, please take a minute to talk to some teachers and educators, to see what they think...unless of course you don't care about the future of our children, this community, state, etc.

James said...

I completely agree with Jay D. Oro Valley has an impressive biotechnology hub. What happens when we are unable to continue to attract this type of employer because there is not a suitable educated workforce to meet their demands? The simple fact is we can not cut our way out of this problem. The state is facing a 3.2 billion dollar shortfall. If the governor quit funding higher education entirely and shut down the universities we could save one billion dollars. If we released all the prisoners and closed the prisons we could save another billion. That still leaves Arizona one billion in the hole. I agree that state spending has grown out of control. However, we can't continue to slash and burn and think everything will be all right.

Victorian Cowgirl said...


I did not answer your question because:

(1) You are always rude (eg. see your follow-up response).

(2) I have no interest in continuing any discussions with you. I prefer to debate those who are mature, intellectual, and civil.

Jay D,

I'm well-read. So, yes, I know about Arizona's low ranking in education. The topic of this post asked if we thought the sales tax hike would be TEMPORARY. And that is the question I was answering. No, I don't think it will be temporary because I've seen this ploy used in the past.

The Zee Man said...

Hello Jay D,

There is NO CORRELATION between the amount of money that is spent on public education and the result achieved.

More money does not improve the learning of our children.

Parents and teachers do. A decent conversation around the dinner table with family does more to educate the children than more money thrown at an already overfunded, underachieving public education system.

Add to this the fact that the
State's budget is bloated with too many entitlement dollars.

And, the fact that a Republican Majority and a Republican Governor can not balance the budget without resorting to increasing our taxes is pathetic.

Remember: The State Property Tax is coming back. And there's already an income tax that's 5% of Federal; sales tax revenues.... The beat goes on and on.

At this point I simply want the State, the town of Oro Valley, and the Federal Government to take their hands out of my pockets and leave me alone.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Well said, Zee Man!

Jay D said...

Oh for crying out loud...I vowed not to spend time here today because I have too much to do, but this is like a car wreck...I just can't look away!

Quickly, I am saddened and disgusted by the ignorant (yes, I am using this word as it is intended, "lacking in knowledge or training") responses on this site in relation to the discussion regarding the potential sales tax increase.

Yes, VC, I realize the discussion was about whether the tax hike would be "temporary" or not. I don't care how well read you are...Obviously since you agree with Zee Man, you are not a supporter of education. Right now, any supporter of education would understand it is essential that we vote YES on this sales tax increase.

Zee Man, your comment, "There is NO CORRELATION between the amount of money that is spent on public education and the result achieved," while I don't have the research in front of me to back up my knowledge, is incorrect.

Maybe you have not had time (or interest) to talk to local educators, parents, or students to find out what is happening in our schools. The serious budget cuts are frightening and there will be a direct correlation between the lack of funding our state provides and the education our students get.

School districts can not find qualified teachers to fill positions. Who would take on such a hard job for so little pay? The state has seriously cut back on the already limited education funding. As a result, school districts are severely cutting
budgets. This will absolutely affect everyone in our state.

Please consider talking to a teacher...See what he/she says to you about the state of our education system in Arizona.

And VC, while I am sure you are well-read, think of all of the future students who will no longer be able to become "well read" since our government in Arizona does not respect the need to educate its students!

artmarth said...

All--- There is obvious spirited debate on this issue, and that is fine.

While we generally stay away from national & state issues, the 1% hike in sales tax is surely an Oro Valley issue as well.

This is one of the reasons we do this this blog----to allow our neighbors a vehicle to voice their opinion, and in this case, it appears that most bloggers are doing just that.

Whether you agree with my blogmaster friend The Zeeman or Jay D, you're welcome to present your views here, and more important, make sure you cast your vote "yes" or "no" on May 18 or earlier by absentee ballot.

John Martin said...

The state's fiscal woes, like those in Oro Valley, stem from structural deficits.

Arizona is one of a handful of states that saw its growth propelled by the speculative boom in housing, which for a while generated easy income for government coffers. The legislature spent much of the boom period cutting all kinds of taxes and fees as if the good times would never end. And voters readily approved spending mandates that tied legislators' hands when the big bills came due during lean times.

In Oro Valley, building fees paid for a tremendous amount of growth as well.

Politicians must make tough choices now, partly as result of their own (and voters') spendthrift behavior.

Deep cuts will be required even if the tax passes.

As far as the state's concerned, there's plenty of blame to go around: 1) Clean elections dollars paved the way for historically under-funded crackpots to actually win low-turnout races, and 2) Rampant use of ballot initiatives by interest groups to expand spending.

We've victimized ourselves by encouraging mob rule (the ballot initiative craze), crack-pot empowerment (the notion that every nut job should be able to run for and win office courtesy of our tax dollars), the notion that we deserve the best of everything so long as others pay the freight (impact and user fees over straight-line taxation).

So, the sales tax hike does only one thing: Lessen the blow.

I'll vote for it, but I'll also vote for more responsible state leaders when given the chance.

Vistoso Val said...

What is evident here is that the taxpayers have been lined up by the legislators so that education is hurt if we don't vote for the increase, instead of other areas of government expenditure. The state government set us up to look bad if we don't vote for it because it will hurt kids, and they can go on with their other favored projects that won't be hurt. Same old game played by politicans.

James said...

Amen John Martin. Isn't the reasons we have a legislature is to legislate? Allowing voter propositions that propose wide ranging, feel good messages are what get is into this mess.
Arizona's structural deficit will only grow even after the legislature makes deep cuts. It is time to elect responsible individuals who are wiling to make tough decisions that might not get them re-elected next election cycle.
John's message is correct. Even with the passage of the sales tax, we are still in a big mess.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

Where exactly did I say that I was not a supporter of education? My posts here indicate that I am not a supporter of taxpayer manipulation.

Let's do we sell this tax to them? Oh, I know...we'll say it's just a temporary tax. Voters are gullible. They'll believe it and they won't worry about yet another tax because it's only temporary. Then, some time later, we'll make the tax permanent. By then, they'll already have gotten used to paying it and hardly anyone will bother to complain.

Nombe Watanabe said...

I went down to a car dealership today. I am looking for a new car. I like cars, so I always look at the candy though I am more interested in value. So on the showroom floor is a SOLD, very nice, special edition vehicle for well over $100,000. "Sold to a ballplayer" sez my salesperson. WOW, teachers make peanuts while some dope who can toss a ball around has THAT car.

Teachers should drive such like, ball players should drive Hondas, not that there is anything wrong with Honda. My point is, the person to whom you trust your most beloved child, is not compensated. America your values are wrong.

After the news, what do we see "excess hollywood" and other mindless crap about actors, and other so called famous folks, who, in truth, don't give a crap about you, and are bemused that anyone would be interested in them other than the quality of their performance. Indeed, they mumble, I can act, but why do you care who or what I sleep with?

They sit at the Viper Club in LA, drinking very expensive liquor, suffering fits of bewilderment at the nature of fame.


OV Objective Thinker said...


You have struck another nail on the head. We should compensate teachers better.

BUT, it all falls apart unless there is support by parents. That's where we lose it.

We have a home issue not a school issue. And the more we create a government dependent society the worse the problem will become.

How have we gotten ourselves into this situation? The answer is:


Leopold B. Stoch said...

This video clip backs up everything Victorian Cowgirl said:

Watch the whole thing.

Your welcome.

OV Objective Thinker said...



Jay D said...

VC, Your comment to me, "Where exactly did I say that I was not a supporter of education?" is funny...The fact that you wrote "Well said, Zee Man!" in response to his comment implied to me that you are not a big public education supporter. Maybe I'm missing something and would be happy to hear it cleared up. Zee Man says that "A decent conversation around the dinner table with family does more to educate the children than more money thrown at an already overfunded, underachieving public education system." Do your homework. Ask the people who matter...teachers, parents, students...then you will find out that our schools are FAR from overfunded! Yes, Zee Man is right...He suggests that parents and teachers influence the education of our students. Ask yourselves this: How many people will continue teaching or become teachers when their salaries are already ridiculously low, and they continue to get pay cuts?

Leopold B. Stotch said...

This TAX idea is RIDICULOUS! I'm so angry about it. I can't afford this!

I just bough a 65 inch LCD television with Platinum Visa. It cost me $2,599. If this tax were in place - I would have had to pay an EXTRA $25.99. I would NOT have been able to afford it and wouldn't have bought the TV. That is bad for the economy.

You liberal socialist pro-tax, pro-schools people can pay for it, but I'm not. Go for it. Make this law. I won't pay it. I cant afford it. I'll move to another state and you wont get any of my money.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

This is what Zee Man said that I was referring to:

"There is NO CORRELATION between the amount of money that is spent on public education and the result achieved."

How does that imply that I am not a supporter of education?

One minute you say, "I don't care how well read you are" and the next minute you say, "think of all the future students who will no longer be able to become "well read" since our government in Arizona does not respect the need to educate its students"

So do you want people to be well-read or not?

Jay D said...

Victorian Cowgirl, obviously you didn't get (I do not mean this in a condescending way) what I intended....Your comment, "So do you want people to be well-read or not?" proves that you had trouble understanding my comments...You commented, "I'm well-read. So, yes, I know about Arizona's low ranking in education." I stated that how well read you are is not important to me. I continued and said, "while I am sure you are well-read, think of all of the future students who will no longer be able to become well read since our government in Arizona does not respect the need to educate its students!" My point is that you claim to have the luxury of being well-read, but without a proper education, students will no longer have that luxury!!! You agree with Zee Man that "There is NO CORRELATION between the amount of money that is spent on public education and the result achieved." I'd be happy to see that research.

Anyway, I am done with this back and forth argument...I don't think we're getting anywhere, and it truly seems to me that many of those who post here are so stuck in their own perceptions, without any true proof or evidence, they can't understand what posters are saying.

OV Objective Thinker said...

Jay D...

"many of those who post here are so stuck in their own perceptions, without any true proof or evidence, they can't understand what posters are saying."


Victorian Cowgirl said...


And you're not stuck in your own perceptions? I've never seen even one time that you have changed your mind about anything after having been given more information.

Jay D,

You'd be surprised to learn that the reason I'm well-read has nothing to do with the education I received, which was sub-standard at best. I always say that I left 12th grade with a 6th grade education, because I honestly don't remember learning anything of use (other than typing) after the 6th grade. And I had already taught myself to type when I was around 8 or 10 years old. The typing classes just helped me to improve my speed.

I've been well-read since childhood, but I did it on my own, going to the library every month and borrowing 4 books which I read over the course of the month, and then went back and borrowed 4 more.

If the child does not have a desire to learn and if the family is not involved in the child's education, then that child is not going to get a good education no matter how much money the taxpayers offer up.

The kids in my school who came from good families, went on to become doctors, architects, lawyers, etc. The kids in the SAME SCHOOL who came from bad families went on to drop out of school, use drugs, get pregnant, get in trouble with the law, etc.

That's why I believe that the family plays a bigger role than the taxpayers do.

Jay D said...

VC, I can't have an "educated" conversation with you about the need to support public education. Yes it's true that students who come from "good families" may be more successful than those who come from "bad families." But to generalize this as pure fact is very naive. Sadly, this demonstrates to me that you have no experience, as I've suggested to everyone here, talking to teachers, students, parents, or anyone else involved with the schools. If you did any research at all, you would know that not all kids who come from "good families" end up being successful and vice versa. A lot more goes into this formula than the simplistic view you place on it. I'm done.

Victorian Cowgirl said...

Jay D,

I agree that not ALL kids who come from good families will succeed and not ALL kids who come from bad families will fail, but the percentages of those who succeed or fail tell the real story.

I remember having many "teachers" who were clearly there just to collect a paycheck. They did not teach. They were just "present" but mostly "absent."

I don't just have an issue with raising taxes to support education. I have an issue with raising taxes to support ANYTHING that the government has had years to correct and has failed to do so. They always claim that the problem is that they need more money. No...the problem is that the people running the agency/board/industry, what-have-you, don't know what they're doing. They're all useless. They're ALL just there to collect a paycheck.

Ever tried to get a straight answer or a knowledgeable answer from anyone at Social Security or Medicare? I have. "Tried" is the operative word.

Jay D said...

VC, I'm frustrated because it really sounds like your mind is made up regarding this 1% sales tax increase, based on your own personal experiences with school. I agree that navigating many government agencies is a headache to say the least, but honestly, in order for you to have an informed opinion, and not be stuck on your experiences with education, I urge you to talk to teachers, parents, or students, or attend one of the information sessions mentioned in this week's Explorer. The educational system in our community affects ALL of us, not just students.

"Three informational meetings are being held at Amphitheater School District high schools to discuss Arizona school funding issues.

"The Current Budget Crisis in Education and How it Will Impact Your Family" is being offered Monday, April 5, from 6 to 7:30 p.m. in the fine arts auditorium at Canyon Del Oro High School; Tuesday, April 6, from 6:30 to 8 p.m. in the auditorium at Ironwood Ridge High School; and Wednesday, April 7, from 6 to 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium at Amphitheater High School.

Speakers include Dr. Vicki Balentine, Amphitheater district superintendent; Scott Little, Amphitheater's chief financial officer; and student representatives from each high school, a release said.

The forums are being sponsored by the Arizona Education Network, and parent / teacher organizations at the three schools.

People with questions may contact Lisa Ferko at or call 940-5132, or Melissa Megna at, or call 834-2947.