The title of this posting is courtesy of our friend Mary Schuh, the lady that keeps her eye out for things like this, and editor of the Pima Association of Taxpayers.
When Mary speaks, we should all listen!
ATTENTION GOLDER RANCH AND NWFD TAXPAYERS! THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS!
SPECIAL BOARD MEETING SUDDENLY SCHEDULED!!!
Northwest Fire District Training Facility
8165 N. Wade Road
Marana, Arizona
Monday, November 30, 2009
1800 Hours
V. NEW BUSINESS
Tab # 1 A. Executive session, pursuant to A.R.S. section 38-431.03 (A) (3) & (4), for discussion and consultation with the Board’s attorney and to instruct the attorney on the Board’s position with respect to items (B) and (C), below.
Tab # 2 B. Discussion and possible action regarding the possibilities for and ramifications of consolidation, merger, joint operations, and / or administrative and operational consolidation with the Golder Ranch Fire District. This discussion may include: the available statutory authorizations [A.R.S. sections: 48-820 and 48-821 (pertaining to fire district mergers and disposition of assets and liabilities); 48-822 (pertaining to fire district consolidations) and 48-805 (B) (17) (pertaining to intergovernmental agreements for technical and administrative services)]; the territorial boundaries of the two Districts; the assessed valuations of the two Districts; the property tax rates of the two Districts and the potential impact on the tax rates if the two Districts consolidate or merge; the potential benefits and harms that could result from consolidation, merger and joint operations, as well as the impacts on the Districts’ administrative and operational personnel. Golder Ranch’s Certificate of Necessity to provide ambulance services to the public may also be discussed.
Tab # 3 C. Discussion and possible action to schedule a joint public meeting of the governing boards of Northwest and Golder Ranch Fire Districts to discuss, jointly, all of the matters in item (B), above. The venue and agenda for this joint meeting will also be discussed.
26 comments:
I realize that it is early in the process, but you would think that Ms. Schuh would come forth with some indication as to why consolidation would be bad.
While NW Fire has been criticized in the past for buying every toy that is available, there will be some economies in scale. I think it is far too early to damn this action until we see specifics.
But then Art is not known to be reasonable and patient....or smart.
If it reduces my taxes, I am for it.
If it increases my taxes, I am against it.
What ever it is.
How many Rural Metro Fire Department subscribers received a rate DECREASE as a result of the RM/GRFD merger?
We haven't heard of any.
If anyone thinks GRFD rates are high, you're right.
However, compared to NWFD, GRFD "aint" that bad.
If that merger ever takes place, the best thing we, as a community can do is start our own Fire Department.
The time may come where that is our best option.
Astski - When did Golder Ranch and Rural Metro merge?
That one slipped by me.
Stop for just a few minutes and think about this idea:
One fire department for the Tucson metropolitan area to include the unincorporated areas within a predefined geographical area. If you fall within the defined area you pay a tax for your fire/ambulance service. Then Rural Metro does what it was designed to do and that is to provide fire service to the rural areas.
This business of having 'scatyeight' fire districts is just an administrative costly nightmare.
If any of our bloggers wish to respond to Cox and point out that a April 1, 2006 letter signed by then Rural Metro Chief, Les Caid & GRFD Chief John Fink noting their new "partnership" resulted in 1000's of Oro Valley citizens having their fire service rates increase, in some cases 100% or more, please do so.
Also, if there are any others out there that feel a single source entity is better for the consumers, please say so.
I would think when it comes to mandatory fire service, competition would be good.
Even all the OV Council believed that, with the exception of Kunisch, when they voted a few months ago to allow MVFD to attempt to service the folks in our southern tier.
Does anyone know if "scatyeight" is more than two?
Recently, Northwest Fire approached Golder Ranch Fire District about a possible merger.
If the NWF Board of Directors votes on Monday night to proceed with discussions there will be a Study Session of BOTH Boards of Directors scheduled. Tentatively this Study Session will be Friday evening and is open the public.
I think we all have to ask ourselves if a regional approach to fire and ambulance will better serve our communities. There is a great deal to consider.
Those of us who live within the fire district elect the Golder Ranch Board of Directors. They are accountable to us.
After a detailed study of the benefits and risks of such a merger be fully evaluated the Boards will then vote. This will be a lengthy process.
I don’t think it’s responsible to rush to create turmoil about conspiracy theories until all the facts are known.
Conny--- I'm sure you don't need to be reminded that within a couple weeks of being elected to the OV Council in 2004, you joined with three of the other new members and voted to allow GRFD to annex Town Hall.
Those of us that know the history, know full well, that vote preceded the ultimate demise of Rural Metro as a fire service company to thousands of OV citizens.
What did we get as a result? Nothing, other than much higher rates.
I applaud Mary Schuh for once again looking out for the citizens of our community.
How can anyone think this was an "above board" deal, when, as Mary points out, it was announced on Thanksgiving eve?
Do we have to wait until our rates escalate once more before we "raise a red flag?"
As I said previously,it might be time to look into an Oro Valley Fire Department.
Art,
There is currently NO DEAL between NWF and Golder Ranch. There are only preliminary discussions. The entire matter could be dropped.
Are you aware a property tax would be necessary for Oro Valley to fund a fire department? Is that what you want?
Regarding your rates increasing. The citizens of Oro Valley were given a choice. Don't forget that the annexation process into the Golder Ranch Fire District is citizen driven through a petition process. The decision was in the hands of the majority of the property owners.
-------
Since you seem to want to focus on the past I'll address your other statements regarding Golder Ranch.
* Yes, I did vote to annex Town Hall into the Golder Ranch Fire District. As I recall, your old friend Abbott voted the same way.
*Golder Ranch provides services to government buildings at no charge. Rural Metro had charged the town for their services until a year or two before Golder Ranch started moving south.
I'm not sure if you're aware of some of the facts surrounding that decision.
* Did you know there was a 'Good Old Boys' deal set up to have the Town as a co-signer on the Rural Metro fire stations? (Rural Metro rents, does NOT own, their stations.) Rural Metro’s decision not to invest in our community concerned me.
* Did you know this would have morphed into convincing the Oro Valley citizens they needed to pass a property tax to fund Oro Valley paying for the stations and equipment should the Rural Metro Corporation, which is located out of state, decide to move the equipment they have here?
*Passing a property tax would have opened Pandora's box giving local government a blank check to raise these taxes anytime they desired.
*Did you know the Rural Metro equipment; ambulances and fire trucks were not required to remain in Oro Valley to be available to the subscribers here? "Our" ambulances and fire trucks were traveling all over the county generating revenue for the 'FOR PROFIT' corporation, Rural Metro.
*Did you know when a fire truck arrives on the scene OSHA requires four (4) fireman before anyone can go in? Rural Metro did not have the staff to meet this law. This means you, and the understaffed fire truck, could stand outside watching your house burn until all four firemen arrived?
You may still disagree and that's ok with me. It's dialogue of opposing viewpoints that sometimes brings about the best solutions!
Call me and I'll answer any additional questions you may have on this.
Conny--I'll tell you what I do know.
With GRFD, my rates went up substantially, and I know I had no say in the matter.
I also know, my area was just annexed,and I never signed anything. In effect, I had NO VOTE.
I know I appreciate the due diligence exhibited by Mary Schuh. Who among us knew about this meeting that was noted on Thanksgiving eve if not for Mary?
I'd rather the people know what might happen BEFORE the fact, then know about it after it's too late.
Obviously Art does not like to be criticized since he removed my posting.
As usual it was the truth and he can't stand the truth.
To our readers--- We have a policy on this blog. Cox continues to show total belligerence towards this policy.
When he sees fit NOT to make personal derogatory comments about me or others, he can comment. When he violates OUR policy, as he sees fit to do on too many occasions, we will delete his comments.
This is the way it is. Every other blogger knows this policy and adheres to it.
OVOT, you are such an insulting individual. I do not know Art personally, and he may express opinions with which you disagree, but civil discourse must be had.
To tell another adult that he needs to go to time out (as you did with Art) is immature, unnecessarily degrading, and it would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Your tactics are unbecoming.
I noticed you applied for the Town Council vacancy left by Paula Abbott. If the Council is wise, they will understand that selecting you will prove to be much more of a liability for the Town than an asset.
You put personal vendettas before positive solutions and constructive action.
OVOT, I wish you well my friend, but you need a crash course in civility if you're ever going to enter public service.
Have you noticed how rude public discourse has become over the years?
I do not remember public leaders/elected officials making personal attacks in the distant past. People used to debate political differences, not shout past each other.
Now what have we come to? Faux News and MSocialistBC are filled to the gills with wack-jobs from the left and right.
Nutjobs and Bloggers can make the most outragous claims. Birthers, Deathers, Wingers, Nutters, when will it end?
That said, I still enjoy a Zinger once and awhile and OVOT provides us with some outstanding opportunites for the Zinger.
NW
NW....Zinging to some of us, is an art form.....no pun intended.
And call it a character flaw but there are some folks who participate on this blog that I love to zing.
Happy Tuesday Art,
By not signing the annexation petition, your vote was an automatic no. That's what makes the petition process fair.
For annexations to succeed there needs to be the majority of property owners to sign - greater than 50%.
It's not just a majority of those that 'vote'.
Every signature on a petition is counted against the total number of property owners.
Some people choose not to sign any petitions; no matter what good cause the petitions may be for.
That means that those that don't even have an opinion one way or the other, but choose not to sign are automatically listed as a no vote.
These facts would pertain to the Segal household as well.
By not signing or maybe not being home when the petitioners went to your house, the lack of a signature signified a NO vote!
So Art, I think you did have a 'vote'. :)
Conny--Before you continue your overzealous support of GRFD you might want to determine what kind of "sweetheart deal" they give to the Hilton El Conquistador resort.
I can guarantee you, not one single homeowner in all of Oro Valley is getting a discounted rate for their fire service that the Hilton gets from GRFD.
So before you tell me "my vote counted," you ought to know that commercial entities can, and do have a major impact in a 50%+1 vote for annexation.
Their "deal" is comparable, if not better than the NWFD recent "giveaway" to the Ritz Carlton Resort in Dove Mountain.
Talk about a Gift Clause!!!
I'll reiterate once again: Before any NWFD/GRFD occurs, it would behoove Oro Valley to definitely consider going into the Fire Service business.
Who amongst us wouldn't want to pay a property tax in LIEU of spending what we do on GRFD?
Art,
I'm not supporting a merger or consolidation at this time. I need more information before I decide.
One position I can take would be to oppose a property tax in Oro Valley. Once 'Pandora's Box' was opened there would be no control by the voters to limit tax increases!
I think higher rates for the fire department OR a Prop. Tax will drive more people to abandon their homes.
There are hard times out there. It is time ALL gov. agencies (including police and fire) to cut back.
Why can't governments (all levels)act like households and cut costs, save money and act in a thrifty manner?
NW,
I agree with you that government needs to learn to live within their means just like the rest of us!
There is very little reference to how services might be effected (if?). I personally can attest to an horrendous situation I had involving Rural Metro a couple of years back (I refer to them because they are used as an 'example' in this stream). Having gone to my doctor due to extreme difficulties with breathing, I was diagnosed with severe pneumonia and an ambulance was called to take me to UMC hospital a few miles down the road. It took over an hour for the ambulance to get there, another half hour for the attendants to 'situate' themselves (notations, calls, etc.), and they then must have taken a 'scenic route' as it took another hour to get me to the hospital. My doctor told me that my situation had been EXTREMELY serious and I could have been viewing the world from a different 'perspective' at any time because of Rural Metro's extraordinary 'delays'.
Living where I do, I have seen Golder Ranch's response to situations here many times and my opinion of them is quite positive.
My point - let's not jump to conclusions just yet; let's find out the whats, wheres, whys, and hows before we make 'bandwagon' analysis.
Zev,
Thank you for pointing out one of the major issues of why we are better served as a community by a fire district! Better yet, you won't see a bill from them either. Our fees to the fire district include ambulance service.
I recently had to call for ambulance service at my home. Before I hung up the phone the ambulance was in front of my home.
My father's life was on the line and I have no regrets supporting the annexation into Golder Ranch Fire District. Some things in life are certainly worth paying for!
Art,
I quote your comment: :"So before you tell me my vote counted," you ought to know that commercial entities can, and do have a major impact in a 50%+1 vote for annexation."
FACTOID
Commercial entities are counted as one (1) signature on an annexation petition.
Please wait for all the facts and discussion to begin before supporting or opposing a consolidation of NWFD and GRFD.
Theme in B Minor for Oro Valley:
Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay
And your O.K.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands
And make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team
Money get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off my stack
NWFD CAN KEEP ITS HANDS OFF MY STACK.
Thank you Pink Floyd, by the way, which one is Pink?
What a grand idea of creating another fire department in the Valley!
More duplication of effort, costs and government! Look around nationally at the number of cities and towns that are contracting their fire services to County or State fire departments to save or contain costs. Does OV really need to build our own fire department? Does OV want to tax the residents and then contract the services to someone else?
When we need a more efficient government, why would we want to hire more people, more overhead costs, and another labor group to bargain with (firefighters)?
Do we really want a 4th fire department in area? 4 chiefs, 4 admins, 4 training centers, 4 of everything else? Or do we need to look at combining the fire departments we have to possibly create a more efficient and hopefully, less costly single fire department?
Let's ask the questions, seek the information, and then make a decision.
Cheers!
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