We believe Dave Perry, Explorer publisher & editor got it "right on" when he chastised the Oro Valley police unions for their abysmal behavior towards our Town Manager, David Andrews.
There are those that believe Police Chief Danny Sharp holds some responsibility for the police under his jurisdiction. That may be debatable. We don't believe the tactics employed by the police unions can be condoned by any "reasonable" person.
We thank Dave Perry for taking a position on this issue.
Please read The Explorer editorial here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/09/16/opinion/editorials/doc4ab0234a2f179339069454.txt
22 comments:
Art,
Yes, Perry's comment on the Police Unions, OVPOA and POP, is appreciated. As a former union organizer, delegate and member, I submit that all unions are not fair or honorable.
By ignoring the national economic crisis and insisting that all of their demands be granted, the OVPOA and POP are not "bargaining in good faith", a clause that must exist in their union contracts. Credible and successful unions assess the economic potential of the times before proceeding to the bargaining table. OVPOA and POP acts like it is uninformed about the news.
Like a tantruming child who wants everything, they return ten months later to insist they can have more.
In retaliation, they target the Town Manager, "as endangering the public safety" because of unfilled positions. Mr. Andrews and the Council, bent over backwards to help them draft a proposed budget by giving them time, professional consultation and finding material cutbacks to save positions.Management conducted itself fairly, in my opinion.
Union members threaten to let crime increase in OV if they don't achieve their goals. Violence, or enabling violence by not enforcing the law, has never characterized honorable unions. If OVPOA and POP do this, this is extortion and not carrying out their sworn duties.
Another way of finding money for positions is for the unions to suggest that administrators offer some of their very large salaries to keep line workers. OVPOA and POP, why not ask the Chief to consider this?
Council, please save the Town's time and precious money, by keeping the diligent Mr. Andrews and consider disciplining the "tantruming child".
David Andrews is a very responsible town manager.
He has done a find job in very difficult times.
Oro Valley is fortunate to have him.
Native Spirit,
I see you have a very interesting and warped imagination.
You said:
"Union members threaten to let crime increase in OV if they don't achieve their goals. Violence, or enabling violence by not enforcing the law, has never characterized honorable unions. If OVPOA and POP do this, this is extortion and not carrying out their sworn duties."
Where was this stated by the FOP and OVPOA? Your bias and hatred for the police unions is shining bright with this complete fabrication.
Although this does not surprise me at all and seems to run par with some other posts from bloggers on this site.
WOW!
You should be ashamed of that statement if you have any kind of moral compass.
Ezek,
In response to your post, here is a reminder from Zee man about the use of the blog:
"We expect and encourage heated robust debate but comments should be civil and free of threat. Commenst should not be "personal attacks" and should be limited to the topic of original posting..."
Do you understand what is meant by "personal attack"?
Dear Ezek, on a previous post you stated that you thought we needed more police than the current manpower authorization.
How many billets would you recommend be added to the force?
Thank You. NW
When ANY special interest group attempts to manipulate a town by a heavy handed DICTATION of the 'terms and conditions' of it's involvement within same, this concerns me. I believe that SOME of the tactics used by SOME of 'those' ASSOCIATED with the OVPD fall within the realm of unacceptable pontification.
In New York City there are 600 teachers that show up daily only to be 'held' in special classrooms but not allowed to teach because the NYC school system wants them out for a variety of reasons; these 'forbidden' teachers are making up to $100,000 year and the system MUST continue to pay them. WHY? The Teachers' UNION says they have to.
Unions can be valuable if they are willing to cooperate and consider other points of objectivity; they are horrid if they simply stand on close minded self interest.
Oro Valley MUST 'show' who's boss and stop pussyfooting around the issues relative to our PD (et al) and do so once and for ALL!
So the police think that they should be included in any talks regarding a severance package for Andrews should the council decide to let him go.
Again this brings me back to how furious they were when Council Member Gillaspie made his "police state" comment a few months ago. Gillaspie hit the nail on the head and they just didn't like it that he exposed them for what they are.
If they're successful in removing Andrews, this will only increase their already overblown sense of power and, mark my words, they'll go after Gillaspie next.
The only way David will leave Oro Valley, is when he gets totally fed up with the actions of some of the cops and/or some on the council.
If and when that happens, it will not be David who loses.
The "losers" will be the vast majority of the residents of Oro Valley.
My best advice to David?
Hang in there. If the people come together and those eligible to vote, do so, I can promise him, (and our readers) that we will have the opportunity to change Oro Valley for the better.
How do I know? I know because I know two new candidates, that if elected, will join with Bill Salette & Barry, and bring common sense, knowledge and caring to the council.
No more vindictiveness and misplaced compassion. We need people who will serve the people.
I for one, can't wait!
Art,
Out of curiosity, do you know when these prospective town council candidates will announce their candidacies? I'm sure fellow OV voters are anxious to evaluate their credentials.
Hi Dan--- Thanks for asking. I would think that you are not the only one interested in knowing who & when.
"Soon" is a relative term, so I'll try to be a little more specific, and say, "hopefully, it will be very soon."
Tomorrow,I will be talking to the two candidates we will enthusiastically endorse, and I'll let our readers know as soon as possible.
Not to be redundant, but I am very confident any citizen that wants to see someone looking out for their interests, will be as impressed with these two gentlemen as I am.
Native Spirit:
You did not answer my question. Instead, you changed the subject advising me that I broke a rule, or guidline for some people.
So I take that as you made up that statement, claiming it to be fact in an effort to pass some rediculous propoganda.
Again you said:
"Union members threaten to let crime increase in OV if they don't achieve their goals. Violence, or enabling violence by not enforcing the law, has never characterized honorable unions. If OVPOA and POP do this, this is extortion and not carrying out their sworn duties."
Again, please do tell where you got this information.
2nd post
Dear Ezek:
In a previous post you stated that you thought we needed more police than the current manpower authorization.
How many billets would you recommend be added to the force?
Thank You. NW
Nombre--- I think if "Native Spirit" & "Ezek" both witnessed a mugging and gave descriptions to the police, one would say it was a 5'2" Caucasian weighing about 220lbs. the other would say it was an African American, about 6'3" weighing about 140lbs.
They each see and believe what they want. I'm not sure if anything will change their viewpoint.
Oh yeah. If I had to believe one or the other, I'd find Native Spirit's" account more credible
Beacause you agree?
Ezek--- Your point about Oro Valley not having enough police is had to fathom.
Native Spirit is totally accurate in addressing the police union's activities, especially as it concerns our Town Manager.
David consistently shows total class in dealing with others.
Can you say the same about your "beloved" cops?
I'll let Native Spirit respond to your query if he/she sees fit to do so.
In the meantime, you seem to have overlooked Nombe's two queries to you.
As to your question to me--- "Is that because you agree?"----I agree that David Andrews is head & shoulders above the police union people that believe they run the town.
Ezek,
For the record...
Let me be direct and clear...your attack was personal, insulting and abrasive...I don't communicate with bloggers/anyone who communicates in that manner.
Ezak, how about a data breakdown utilizing national statistics - crime rates, per capita personnel averages, percentage of overall municipality budget averages, et al, in order to justify your claim that [Oro Valley needs more manpower on our police force]. Also, perhaps you can document how busy the force is right here in Oro Valley relative to the REAL stuff a department should be EXPECTED to do. And, ezak, don't accuse me of being anti-police; I respect that they do have a place most definitely needed in our society. I do not respect that they become a bloated, over reaching, and SELF serving entity.
Zev,
Well said...Zev, with your problem solving creativity, can you suggest a way of incorporating all those "police reports/events/incidents" that police categorize as 'miscellaneous' which residents report as violations, in such projected stats?
Why, you ask?
If ezek decides to present such a record to you or the blog, very salient points may be absent. I allege, the OVPD has a "low rate of reported crime" which reflects PD's definition of what they chose to report, not what is actually called in. The discrepancy is large and growing.
Thanks
Native Spirit
Relative to your first sentence (request), for want of an expeditious route, let me simply state that one can go to the April postings on this site and get a pretty exacting overview of the stats pertaining to the OVPD and it's relative numbers; the streams therein are a good reminder. As to getting the exact numbers on 'crime statistics' in Oro Valley, I believe that this is a matter of public record and should afford the opportunity for examination by anyone who might desire to pursue same, if needed.
As to your last paragraph, mine was a direct challenge to 'ezak' in order that he might justify his position; until such time as he might respond I will let things 'stand as they are'.
Incidentally, a factor that I believe SHOULD be (but
wasn't/isn't) relative to the utilized statistics, is a recently noted exposure that Oro Valley is comprised of 25% retired persons - non-criminal types.
Another item is the fact that a sunset clause written into a utility tax to enable a TEMPORARY addition of 6 officers was voted on to be extended 'forever' in order that the 6 temporary officers be retained (forever?). Another extra?
And,in addition, consider that creative accounting and the reassignment and/or consolidation of certain 'operational facility' accounted for the OVPD budget having been brought 'down' to fall within the considered 'norm' (average) of personnel and budget.
I hope this response to your post is satisfactory.
Correction:
I stated that personnel was 'brought down to the norm' along with the OVPD budget; this was not the case, the OVPD personnel still appears to be OVER the norm.
ZC
So I see that there is no answer to my question which tells me that the statement made was a complete fabrication. Instead of answering the question, you argue against another opinion that I wrote on another stream which is not even relative to the discussion on this stream.
I see that the tactic here is to change the subject when you don't have an answer and hope that others will latch on, as they have, and my original observation/question will go away.
Yes, ezak, streams do go 'off course' once in awhile, but usually that is because someone might post a provocative response rather than a reasoned query. Of this, you are guilty and your last entry itself evades reality.
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