As reported in the July 29 Explorer, the Oro Valley sign code is a problem that the council is prepared to address.
There are two positions. One generally supported by the residents, believe signs should be dark after 10:00 PM unless a business is open.
The other position, supported by the business community, says signs are an additional means of advertising, and without the illumination, it would hurt business.
We believe the most telling sentence in the article is a quote from Oro Valley planner,Dee Widero who said, "The impetus was Oro Valley Marketplace,"
Widero said the Marketplace couldn't be singled out, therefore all businesses were notified of the issue.
This is just another example of the way Vestar and some of its retailers flaunt Oro Valley codes. Many of us rue the day Vestar came to our community, showing total disdain for the government and the citizens.
Read the article here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/07/29/news/doc4a6f8613d632e843590814.txt
15 comments:
A sign is a means of finding a business as a destination, in retailing IT IS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE AN ADVERTISING MEDIUM. Signs also have the useful purpose of enhancing the visibility of a business during peak 'drive times', not late after hours 'prowling'. Restaurants - if they remain open later than a normal storefront, then a lighted sign is necessary as a recognition factor.
If a business such as a Walmart remains open into the night then a lighted sign is a necessity for that business also.
As a former retailer (AND retail analyst), though I feel empathy towards any business that is not performing well these days, signage is NOT their answer, working harder and smarter IS! There was a recent 'letter to the editor' written by an Oro Valley business person and published in the AZ Star that iterated that she was [against allowing for lighted signs beyond what is now Code and
added that she found other ways to INCREASE her business during this recessive period]. If she can do it, how come many of the other businesses along with their Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce advocates can't seem to grasp this concept.
People have access to all types of
business researching on the internet, newspaper advertising, yellow pages, etc. and the smart shopper of today uses these tools. Would I go to dentist simply because I saw a lighted sign at night - absolutely not, and for the one who was quoted in a recent article as saying [he needed night identification] I will say to him that "you need to improve your practice and let word of mouth (pun intended) increase your business".
And for those who cry that they spent lots of money for their signs and that they should be ENTITLED to leave them on, I say to them, sorry, I spent almost $10,000 on a sign for my retail business situated on a major thoroughfare in Cupertino, CA in 1986 and it was 'lights out' by 10pm; I knew that going in and ACCEPTED THE CODE AS WRITTEN.
I get oh so tired at the ENTITLEMENT factor that creeps like a cancer into every corner of our society these days.
Let's try to keep what's left of Oro Valley, Oro Valley and not show ourselves off as a cheap
pass-by 'anytown' strip center facility.
There was a time when people here in town recognized the observatory on Kitt Peak and tried to reduce light pollution and outlaw high intensity sodium vapor lamps. I would suspect that during the original draft of the Oro Valley sign code, this and reducing the impact of business closely located to residence developed a common sense ordinance both parties could live with.
Personally I don’t drive around at 11PM looking for retailers with the hopes of catching a glimpse of their sign to figure out exactly where they are located. When I had been out that late, I didn’t notice a large amount of potential customers searching either. One would think with the push of the green agenda, reducing your electrical footprint by turning off your lights after 10, or an hour after you close could win some favor with some customers.
There needs to be balance between the retailer and the community. Personally I don’t see the need for late night light advertisement for closed businesses. The ordinance has existed for some time, and should be adhered to.
Thanks to Zev & Don for their respective comments. As I see it, they both make sensible, articulate points and I wonder, can anyone argue with their points of view?
Art, it is of my opinion that there is simply no argument; storefront signage history and analysis speaks for itself. Is this issue the best that the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce can come up with? Or is it that they are now trying to 'get back' at OV for denying participation in their funding requests? In either case the Chamber must have it's head in the sand as this issue is really a no-brainer!
Zev...
"And for those who cry that they spent lots of money for their signs and that they should be ENTITLED to leave them on, I say to them, sorry, I spent almost $10,000 on a sign for my retail business situated on a major thoroughfare in Cupertino, CA in 1986 and it was 'lights out' by 10pm; I knew that going in and ACCEPTED THE CODE AS WRITTEN."
As I suspected, your business was "situated on a major thoroughfare". Many of these businesses aren't. They do not have the benefit that you had.
Times are tough. Is code enforcement more important to you than business failure. It's time to give them some slack.
By the way I contacted the town government in Santa Clara and they have NO lighting curfew. Cupertino didn't have the courtesy to respond to my inquiry.
PS Zev...Once again you bow to artski. Say what you wish but it is becoming a pretty familiar MO.
It is the job of NPCCC to represent their businesses. It's the businesses that want the code changed. The Chamber is simply echoing their members wishes. Get over your NPCCC vendetta. It makes you look small and shallow.
But if a business is NOT situated on a major thoroughfare, then that means that not very many cars will be driving past that business at 10 PM or midnight anyway, so why do these businesses need to leave their lights on?
And if you ARE situated on a major thoroughfare, then there are thousands of cars that pass by your business every day who will see your sign during the day and know that you're there, and if you are located in a shopping plaza, then anyone driving through or walking around that plaza during the day will also know that you are there.
I asked this question on another post and, no surprise, no one was able to argue with me. So I'll ask it again.
Think back to the 1800's. How did the saloon, the barbershop, the dressmaker, or the doctor's office ever stay in business? After all, none of them had signs lit up all night!
The "I need a lighted sign at 3 AM or I will go out of business" argument is a weak argument.
Thinker, you say that times are tough and keeping a business from failing is more important than code enforcement. To which I say...
(1) Times are tough and therefore my taxes should be lowered not raised. It's more important that I can pay my mortgage and put food on the table and be able to pay for needed doctor's and dentist's visits than it is for the government to take my money so they can give it to GOVAC or to Project Graduation or so they can build an ugly wall. Times are tough. Cut me some slack!
(2) American Home Furnishings, Pella Windows, Sedona Patio, and numerous restaurants all had signs lit up all night long and they STILL went out of business. And they were on a main thoroughfare where thousands of cars passed by each day and night. So how will a 24-hour lighted sign on a secondary road keep someone in business when it can't even keep them in business on a primary road?
OT, I do not have a vendetta against the NPCCC; I simply think that this is an issue, a TOWN CODE issue, that an organization like this should keep their noses out of and, instead,be thinking of REAL ways and means to help businesses other than leaning on a sham issue in order that they might appear to be doing something.I do not need the NPCCC to tell me that night-lighted signs bring in wads of dough; my experience tells me otherwise.
I will say this however:
Whomsoever specks and/or designs
some of the signs in Oro Valley along with color utilization, they most certainly need some education in sign attraction, application, and visibility execution within standards as set by an overall project and within the guidelines as set by Town. As an example of sign muddle, try and read the signs from Oracle Road that are within the Steam Pump Ranch center IN DAYLIGHT - no can do! There are criteria in sign COLORS and FONT TYPES that can make or break sign effectiveness. THAT should be an issue, but of course Town is weak in architectural analysis and application.
Now, as to your comment that I "bow to artski" - that astounds me that you could say that (aside from the aspect that your intent appears to be demeaning and irreverent both towards Art and myself.)! I think it is rather obvious that the way I think and the way I write is MY OWN WAY. Perhaps it is you who lemmingly follows mostly dogmatic interests as I feel that sometimes you either ignore or can't understand what I might be saying and due so because you are so 'glued' to a tree that you can't see the forest. But, for me, that's okay as long as we can have some give and take dialogue.
Now, in keeping with my independence absolute, I agree absolutely with Victorian Cowgirl's succinct presentation.
Next to last paragraph should read 'do so' NOT 'due so'
VC......I couldn't agree more with the following:
(1) Times are tough and therefore my taxes should be lowered not raised. It's more important that I can pay my mortgage and put food on the table and be able to pay for needed doctor's and dentist's visits than it is for the government to take my money so they can give it to GOVAC or to Project Graduation or so they can build an ugly wall. Times are tough. Cut me some slack!
:-) VOTE REPUBLICAN!!! :-)
THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!
I'm still waiting for someone to dispute my lighted sign arguments. Thinker? Anyone?
Zev...
Art made a useless (but then most of them are,in my opinion) comment and before the ink is dry you are right there agreeing with his mindless post. It just seemed like you can't wait to go, "Yeah, Art. You're right." Maybe I am reading too much into this. And yes I am guilty from time to time of being irreverent. 99% of the time it is meant to humor. The other 1% is meant to yank the blog master's chain.
Now honestly Zev, how can you demean Art????? The ONLY people that I know that will even speak to Art are some of the posters on this blog. The only reason I ever speak to him is because I believe it irritates him. Hell, nobody would even sit next to him at a recent party he attended.
I hope to have some interesting tax info for you and VC in the next few days.
Have a great evening and remember....rain dance!!!!!!!
OT, I ride no one's coattails and that includes Art's. I have opinions and I have certain knowledge and THAT is what I base my posts on. If Art does introduce an issue that I happen to agree on, then the chips may fall within his 'camp'; if I simply add to the stream, the chips may fall wherever they might. You and I have had differences of
opinion on many issues, this does not mean that I am an anti-Don zealot; and it does not mean that whatever you might say I MUST take an opposite position.
In short, I do not have a 'positive' CONNECTION to Art nor do I have a 'negative' CONNECTION to you - it's the issue, stupid (LOL).
Times are tough and businesses are suffering because of economics not because they cannot produce light pollution 24/7. The Chambers have to lobby however their members want them to.
Deacon, how did the Chamber 'amass' this coalition for whom they lobby? When a dentist claims and is 'out there' that he needs a lit sign at night and after the approved hours, I wonder. Who goes to or inquires about a dentist that has a lit sign after 10pm? It appears that, there is either an overabundance of certain businesses in Oro Valley or a lack of need for others OR proprietors who simply are lacking the 'goods' or the abilities necessary to have an operation here. Yes, I have been in the retail business when times have been tough and I can empathize with those who are suffering. But, to think that lit signs, after 10pm will assist in righting a business climate is simply pie-pie-in-the-sky thinking; simply put, it won't!
Zev, hopefully the Council will support lights out at night.
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