For the most part, we have avoided what some feel is an important issue concerning Oro Valley. Council Member Salette Latas is in the forefront of trying to do what she can to protect the pet owners and pets of Oro Valley. There are those, that take her to task for these noble efforts.
Below are two letters taking two points of view. One from Misti Chivaluksna-Smith One from Diane Peters. We agree with Ms. Peters.
One note: Explorer editor Dave Perry saw fit to edit and shorten Ms. Peter's letter to keep it under his "prescribed policy" of 350 words or less.
We find that decision to be totally indiscriminate. Last week, Ms. Smith's husband wrote a letter chastising Salette as well as Bill Garner. The length of that letter? Three hundred and eighty words!
Dave --- It's your paper and your policy, but you may want to explain the discrepancy. (If you email me, I'll post your explanation.)
These two letters, plus all others can be viewed here.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/06/10/opinion/doc4a2ee6c476330701722601.txt
Also, here's The Explorer article on this issue.
http://www.explorernews.com/articles/2009/06/10/news/doc4a2eecfe4977f650446166.txt
25 comments:
Links no worky
Thanks Bill- I fixy.
Abbott tried to cut this mere $10k study that could reap a third of a million dollars in revenue. Then she made it sound like she is the only one on the council fiscally responsible???
WTF??
This from someone who increases funding burden to the citizens of OV, adding to the current deficit to support the likes of TREO and GOVAC. She also voted against cutting the police take home vehicle budget by 25% and raided the raining day kitty.
Once again, WTF?
"WTF"???? Well, at least we now know "ETH" is not a female!
I may be wrong, but I doubt it!!
Other than that, "no comment" from me.
The underlying problem here is whether or not the Town of Oro Valley wants to be a cut above the dismal performance of the County. The library? Oro Valley spends over a 1/2 million dollars on a service that the County is supposed to provide; problem is, the County doesn't do a very good job in the ones they do control. Councilmember Latas is proposing that we in Oro Valley take charge of our own pet situation; problem is, it's in the hands of the County now and, like the libraries, they don't do a very good job in handling it (I've had my own experience with them in a pet matter and their efforts reflected dismal incompetence).
In many affairs of County, Pima has shown much ineptitude (so has Oro Valley but at least we do have the advantage of being able to rein it in).
Aside from the humane side of the issue, Ms. Latas did, IN FACT, illustrate a cost/benefit which could materialize if we in Oro Valley were able to keep our own pet controls right here in Oro Valley. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
Zev,
In what ways do you believe Pima County doesn't do a good job with the libraries? I'm interested in your take on it.
I pay THOUSANDS in property tax,
why do i get the feeling that my money is not well spent by the county?
I also pay HOA fees. (almost 300$ per quarter) Is my HOA money going to services that the county would otherwise have to shoulder?
I agree with endthehandouts...WTF!!
Ms Abbott et al must go.
James, for me a library is a place to read, to research, and obtain books and other various media for 'take home' purposes and to accomplish this purpose in an atmosphere of assistance and quietude. On my 2 visits to the library in downtown Tucson, I was greeted with no available service, I was subjected to hearing chatter with little or no interference by the attendants, and I found the library wanting for at hand available subject matter. Also, I read of 'events' being or having been put on within or by the sponsorship of the library system; my personal view is that libraries should not be involved in such activities.Were my experiences horrible? No. Did they leave much to be desired? Yes.
Now, I don't say that I find the Oro Valley library as a pristine example of all things library nor do I approve of the browbeating that is advanced by the Friends of the Library; I was trying to make a comparative point that, in some instances, local control can be advantageous over more widespread influences. In fact, I am prone towards Oro Valley turning our library over to the County (can't see all that money being laid out for another entity's responsibility) though
I still find Pima County wanting for organizational sanity. My intention was to use the library system as a comp example; in hindsight perhaps I did not get that point across as well as I should have. As well, perhaps I look too far back in my life and judge current libraries relative to how they used to be. Sorry.
Zev, I appreciate your explanation and example of your concerns with the county library system. I agree with a previous post and letter that highlighted Mr. Musolf's argument that Oro Valley Library should be turned over to Pima County. Considering the tight budget year that we are currently in, it appears to be a no-brainer to turn the library over to the county.
I believe that Councilmember Latas has done her due diligence in presenting the costs associated pet licensing, however, I do not think that Oro Valley should take on this responsibility. It is just one more pot for their hands to be in.
Well James, I guess you light your expensive cigars with hundred dollar bills, too.
We give Pima County way too much in terms of animal control (around $2000 per animal taken in to PAC). Also, we give, really GIVE, them too much for the county library system and get NOTHING in return.
ANIMALS: Spending money on a feasibility study for this makes much more sense than spending money to conduct a survey to find out why the Naranja Park bond failed. We already know why it failed.
Also from a personal standpoint, after seeing so much of my tax dollars spent on things that I couldn't care less about, it would be nice, for a change, to see my tax dollars spent on something that I actually DO care about!
LIBRARY: Regarding Zev's comment about the Tucson library, "I was subjected to hearing chatter with little or no interference by the attendants" I have to say that this is the same situation I found at the OV Library. My husband and I went there a few times in 2003 and thought it was more of a day-care center than a library. "Chatter" didn't even describe it. "Screaming" was more like it. Noisy kids everywhere and their mothers and the library staff were completely oblivious to the distraction it was creating for everyone else. No one told the children to be quiet and no one spoke with the mothers about keeping their kids quiet. After being subjected to this for 3 visits in a row, we never went back.
ETH,
With this economy I light my cigars with fifty dollar bills. (Every little bit helps).
Oro Valley is a locality inside of Pima County. Being located inside of Pima County subjects Oro Valley to the library tax. We do pay the county too much in library service when we must also pay for Oro Valley's library on top of the tax. I see an easy solution. Follow Mr. Musolf's suggestion and turn the library over to the county.
As for the animal control situation, I don't see how Oro Valley would be able to come out on top with this proposal. Would Oro Valley pet owners have to license their dogs with Pima County too? (Look at what happens by having a separate library entity. Residents pay twice.)
James,
I agree with you on the library. Animal control I think we disagree, but I hope you understand (my understanding, anyway) we would keep all licensing generated revenue and Oro Valley would no longer pay Pima for animal control services. This is a positive net of a possible $300k and we would no longer bare any responsibility for funding that festering and rotten facility of PAC.
And, consider using a $20 and than contributing the other $30 to http://www.pbrc.net/donate.html
James,
The way I understand it, Oro Valley dog owners would not have to license their dogs under Pima County, just Oro Valley. Oro Valley would be able to collect 100% of the fees, and do a better job, in my opinion.
Bloggers:
Please let me register my chagrin at how Misti has been coached to express her new American freedoms.
Welcome to the US, Misti!
But while you are free to disagree, social mores expect civility. Your decorum at the podium was unacceptable. Mayor Loomis should have stopped you when you were attacking the ever cool, calm, former air controller-ever a lady-Mrs. Latas, not after the fact. He erred by omission. I wonder if the audience felt like you were targetting Mrs. Latas for all the rage you must have held in check in your repressive country of origin?
While you may freely disagree with her proposal, you also may have underrated what it offers to OV in dollars. genertating income in very needy times.
This is a civilized town, one that obeys the laws. One trip to the Pima County Animal Control Center will tell any OV pet owner that they would much rather pay $5 to "chip" their pet, than to see their pet spend one night in that facility. Kathy Pastryk's letter to the Editor personalizes the impact of pet loss and the joy at their return.
An animal lover, I've been to PCACC twice but cannot go back. It is simply too depressing, too heartbreaking to see these lost animals wait for their owners.
OV is a smaller geographic community and chipping would reassure return of our pets. Paying licensing and chipping fees to OV not PC to protect these furry loved ones would be embraced by resident animal lovers rather than protested.
Through her concern about humane animal treatment Ms. Latas is suggesting an unexpected source of income for our town. Her creativity needs to be applauded not attacked. I concur with Zev, endthehandouts, and James about this issue.
It is of my opinion that Ms. Diane Peters, in a very concise manner, presented a potent view as to how Oro Valley could and should handle the pet 'situation' as advocated by Councilmember Latas. First and foremost these creatures have peculiar identities in each and everyone of them - love, playfulness, loyalty, companionship, understanding, protection - each trait or combination of them makes these 'pets' what they are to the PEOPLE that cherish them! To slough them off as expendable is as disgusting as were the pointed presentations that were proffered by certain anti-advocates at the past Council meeting.Ms. Latas, whom I know to be unrelenting in her pursuit of fiscal responsibility, I also know to be profoundly sensitive to those wonderful gifts of 'nature' which are coldly perceived by some as being 'less then human'. Personally, anyone who would harm my dog Marty, a loving, playful, intelligent, vulnerable, and sensitive companion, would be in for a retribution that that person would forever regret!!!
On the fiscal side, Ms. Latas makes the point that, properly handled, Oro Valley stands to gain a cost/benefit ratio that virtually no other program can match. Now, who in the hell can argue with that?
Not only did Mayor Loomis not stop Misti DURING her attack, he also DID TRY to stop Salette from responding to her. When Salette wouldn't back down, he then tried to get her to wait until all the speakers had finished speaking before she could respond to Misti. Granted, that's what the rules state, that you have to wait until all the speakers have finished speaking, but two things:
(1) The Mayor can override that and allow the council member to address the person immediately.
(2) And, I still remember one time when a resident spoke against Terry Parish (I think it even might have been Zev) and Parish responded immediately and the Mayor did not stop him or tell Parish that he had to wait until all the speakers had finished speaking.
Although I think Loomis runs a good meeting, I do notice that he gives more leeway to those who vote along with him than he does to those who usually vote against him. He needs to learn to be more objective in this regard.
I also agree with Native Spirit's evaluation of Misti. I, too, think that her anger was misdirected. I've seen all of her letters to the Explorer. She is always angry and her anger is always out of proportion to the event that she is describing. I think she has a lot of pent up anger and she is using her new "patriotic" freedom as an excuse to lash out at the slightest provocation.
If Misti left her country of origin because she was treated as being "less than" then she needs to realize that she is now treating others as being "less than" and this makes her no different than the regime she sought to escape. She talked down to Salette as if she were superior to her and she made it clear that she also views animals as being "less than."
A couple of years ago (to some it may be recalled) I had a rather contentious 'interaction' with Mayor Loomis at one of the Council meetings (it seemed that the Mayor
misunderstood that a compliment I
was giving to a particular entity was NOT at the expense of denigrating another). Mayor Loomis reminded me and others that [we do not 'put the knock' on others in our meetings]. And, my own personal experience aside, I believe that, to his credit, he did try to maintain this type of decorum when he advised Misti that this was the case. However, this seemed to be to little avail as the slam continued by her and a couple of others who followed. In addition,when Mr. Dick Tracy, the former Police Captain from Chicago and local conspiracy theorist (yes, he says, we here are a "cabal"), tore into this blog site and those of us who participate in it, he was, in essence, continuing a pattern of denigration; and that, too, should have been stopped!
For the most part, Mayor Loomis does run a decent meeting, but he, needs to clamp down on the exercise of decorum as free speech does demand responsibility (do you understand that concept, Misti?), and, as well, he needs to allow for those procedural necessities which provide for a maximum participation by the electorate.
The problem with waiting until all of the speakers have finished speaking on their various issues before a council member can address a particular speaker is that it gives ample time for the "offending speaker" to leave the meeting. By the time that speaker is addressed, they may no longer even be in the room!
VC, isn't it telling that there are some who simply come to ONE meeting in order to lecture (yes, 'lecture' because they don't want to hear a response) and then leave the premises, having never or rarely been to prior meetings beforehand and most probably not interested in attending future ones; these are simply 'single agenda propagandists' and should be taken as such - so much for Misti et al!
Sooooo.....it looks like Dave Perry can't explain why anyone who wants to bash Salette Latas and Bill Garner gets as many words as their feeble little minds need...and anyone who wants to support them has to stick to the rules.
OV Mom,
What's interesting is that the bias is so clear, so obvious, in the meeting tape, the articles, the dialogue. It is undeniable.
Here's a councilwoman working diligently and the 'ole boy network' squirms uncomfortably and tries to limit her influence...wonder if they are jealous or feel they have to work harder to surpass her accomplishments.
Salette, we're behind you!
OV Mom,
What's interesting is that the bias is so clear, so obvious, in the meeting tape, the articles, the dialogue. It is undeniable.
Here's a councilwoman working diligently and the 'ole boy network' squirms uncomfortably and tries to limit her influence...wonder if they are jealous or feel they have to work harder to surpass her accomplishments.
Salette, we're behind you!
I have a few questions about this topic.
Would the Oro Valley Animal Control (per say) fall under the control of the Chief of police much like Pima Animal Control falls under the control of the Sheriff? Where would the facility be housed? I know I would rather not listen to the barking of all of the dogs that would potentially be housed there.
What would they do with the dogs that aren't found with a collar or a micro chip? Lattas proposed a "no kill" shelter so how long would the animal control house an animal and how many would they house for this time period?
I see where this program could help the town gain much needed revenue, however this type of program could also cost Oro Valley a lot of money.
Like the library, if it does not work after a few years, would the council turn control of animal control back to the county?
It seems the town could start building a bad reputation of turning to the county to solve its problems.
I'm not for or against this program yet, I just have a lot of questions and concerns.
If someone has information on some of my questions, do tell.
Ezek,
Salette could answer your questions better than I can so I would suggest that you e-mail them to her. However, regarding a couple of your questions, my recollection is this:
There wouldn't be an actual facility built for this purpose. The HOPE Animal Shelter has offered free boarding and free vet care.
Animals without an ID collar or a microchip would be turned over to rescue groups who find permanent homes for the animals.
So a no-kill shelter would not need to be built. We would be working with no-kill groups/rescue groups that are already in place.
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