As reported in The Az Star, Council Members Salette Latas & KC Carter have suggested that Oro Valley consider initiating a citizen Economic Development Commission.
Amanda Jacobs, OV Economic Development Specialist recently reported to the Town Council, suggesting commission members could represent sectors such as the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce, public education, major utilities, banking or financial services, and small and large businesses and make recommendations to the council.
While Salette believes the members should all be Oro Valley residents, Mayor Paul Loomis and Council Member Al Kunisch say otherwise.
Kunisch is quoted as saying: "People live in Oro Valley but don't have businesses here."
That sounds like another Kunisch quote that is so discombobulated, it's incomprehensible.
Is the volunteer commission a good idea? Probably, but why did the council just approve $72K to MTCVB & $40K to TREO?
We know we can't blame Garner, Latas & Gillaspie for that. Too bad, Carter & Abbott joined with Loomis & Kunisch who seem to never say "no" to any of these giveaways!
Here's the Az Star article.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/294217
26 comments:
Sounds like a good thing to me. Also don't feel that a member would necessarily have to be a business person or owner. Might think about having a citizen rep on the commission to give the resident view or idea. Commission members should be limited to Ov residents and OV business owners.
Try it and if it works then great, if not then no harm done.
mscoyote is right on in presenting that a citizen rep on such committee should be in order. For too long now, we have had the commercial side of the community operating from a bully pulpit.
Now, that being said, it appears that we might be getting another group of special interests to make up this committee and SPECIAL INTERESTS have already had their way with Oro Valley. Remember all of the expert 'economists', financial giants, business mavens, consultants, et al that took this Country DOWN, well, THEY are still
screwing with it.
It's time to settle - no more of this 'where are we going stuff' 'cause no one knows where or how the 'recovery' is going to end up.
When you don't have any money you can't lay plans for another party!
Exactly, what is this group supposed to do? Then, we can determine who should be on this group.
"commission members could represent sectors such as the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce, public education, major utilities, banking or financial services, and small and large businesses"
Oro Valley residents/homeowners are conspicuously absent from this list!
But, of course, banking and financial services ARE on the list. Yup, the same people who destroyed our economy are going to be asked to sit on an ECONOMIC Development Commission.
Shouldn't they be sitting on the Economic Destruction Commission?
I don't know of a banker that could be on this committee, but picking up on "Cowgirl's" thoughts, here are some names for the seven member commission.
1) DICK JOHNSON-- As a council member he proved his ineptitude by pushing through almost $50 million in retail development giveaways.
2) DAVID WELSH-- As Oro Valley Economic Administrator, he proved one thing. With the position being vacant since he departed for TREO, we don't need anyone in that high paying job.
3)LYNN ERICSON-- As General Manager of The Hilton El Conquistador Resort, he has graciously been accepting a 2% "kick back" on Oro Valley Bed Tax for years.
4) MELANIE LARSON-- As past owner of The Explorer, she is now the self proclaimed spokesperson telling the council how they should donate to outside agencies.
5) DON COX-- As a frequent blogger, he has proved without any doubt that he deserves to be the citizen's representative. As a real estate agent we know he'll look out for the business community, without concerning himself with the citizens.
6) GREG FORSZT--NPCCC Chairman and Ventana Medical employee,he has proved where his allegiance lies, when he was the stooge plaintiff for Vestar in the SOVOG lawsuit attempting to let the people vote on their $23.2 million giveaway.
7) AL KUNISCH-- Every chance he gets he proves that he will stand tall for any special interest group. His votes as a Council Member prove his worthiness for this commission.
CHAIRPERSON----Is there any question? Nobody else can say they've supported giving taxpayer money to outside agencies than the mayor has over the last 7 years or more.
Did I miss anybody?
Zee man has asked the critical question: "What exactly is this group supposed to accomplish?" To which I would add, "and why?"
Apparently, failing to ask these same questions is how we ended up with TWO police substations.
I recommend that the list of names posted by artmarth above be posted to an "Oro Valley Wall of Shame" tab on the homepage of this site.
Take the unused "Question of the Week" off the home page and replace it with the wall of shame.
I would also place a statement that you can get off the shame list with good works, supporting the citizens of the valley rather than the developers and other folks who want to destroy the natural beauty of our area.
Conversely, there is always room for additions to the list.
The Oro Valley Wall of Shame...great idea. After all, if we have to live with the Great Mall of China and the Great Wall of Oracle, we should pay homage to all those great folks who gave us those things.
Come to think of it, how about after the Great Wall of Oracle is finished, we carve those "leaders" names into the wall for all the passersby to see. It could say, "This wall brought to you by..."
It could list the town "leaders" who approved it, the developer who built the homes too close to a major artery, the homeowners who purchased those homes and then complained about the traffic noise, etc.
Hmmm! A Wall Of Shame"
Not a bad idea, but I think no one on my list can do anything to be removed. Maybe, Lynn Ericson, if he sees our financial dilemma and agrees to give back his 2% Bed Tax for the remaining months. I don't believe we should hold our breath waiting on that.
As for the others,they're like zebras that can't change their stripes!
Given the anti-business climate that has been created over the past several months, I doubt that an economic developement citizen commission would be effective.
Until the business community is considered a significant partner in the overall success of Oro Valley, and treated as such, why create a 'pro-business' commission?
OVOT, you bring up VERY pertinent question in your last post and one that I believe should have it's due consideration in debate: what WOULD be considered as an "overall success of Oro Valley"? That is a very open question and subject to many factors and opinions. I believe that said subject seriously needs to be explored and defined prior to the actions of any body, elected or appointed, darting here and there, back and forth, helter skelter, in order to solve the presently non-existent reality and loosely held visions of where DO we want to go with what we've got and WHY!
Thinker,
Curious as to why you think OV has an anti-business climate.
Personally my husband and I try to spend our money locally. I would rather OV get the sales tax but also with Oracle Rd becoming more like a speedway it is easier to stay local.
Still I think how great it would have been if Vestar has given Ov that nice shopping center as promised there would have been little reason to go elsewhere to shop.
Recall somebody talking about how a man could go to the Oro Valley Marketplace to shop for a dress shirt, etc. Where is that, it never happened. Husband needed a nice pair of dress pants, he had to go to Casas Adobes or to the Tucson Mall.
I know everybody is sick of hearing about Oro Valley Marketplace, etc, but we need to learn from that mistake.
Ms. Coyote,
I agree. I think it would have been nice to have local residents involved with the Vestar subsidy, because they might have ensured that the agrement spelled benefits to Oro Valley and consequences for not delivering those benefits.
For me, my last word on the OVM:
It was stated in one of the 'newspapers' a few weeks ago that the OVM was JOINT VENTURE
between Vistoso Partners and Vestar (Wolfswinkle and Wolfswinkle?); is it any wonder then that NO OTHER DEVELOPER HAD A CHANCE!
Fellon Wolfswinkel should also be on the wall of shame.
Supposedly Wolfswinkel still owes the governemnt mega bucks in back taxes.
Problem with some of these characters is they think they should be on the Wall of Fame not the Wall of Shame.
I would like to backtrack to a statement made by OT:" Until the business community is considered a significant partner in the overall 'success' of Oro Valley, and treated as such, then why create a 'pro-business commission?'
Thinker, what do you think has been going on here for the past years? The 'pro business commission' WAS the Town Government of Oro Valley acting in concert with those business persons who managed to pimp their way in. They had their say, and can still have some; but, no longer will the People allow for
dictatorial powers. There were false promises made, zoning regulations twisted, strong arm tactics utilized; virtually every demand of theirs' was met.
The people want THEIR say now, and just because We want more of it doesn't mean that business entities would be excluded (unlike what they did to Us).
Zev,
I agree. I think that a citizen-run economic development commission would be a good thing for Oro Valley, rather than letting non-OV entities dictate our practices.
Zev.....
I am not sure of the source for some of your comments so allow me ask you to qualify them for me.
"The 'pro business commission' WAS the Town Government of Oro Valley acting in concert with those business persons who managed to pimp their way in. They had their say, and can still have some; but, no longer will the People allow for
dictatorial powers. There were false promises made, zoning regulations twisted, strong arm tactics utilized; virtually every demand of theirs' was met." (Editorial Comment: "Pimp" is a nice word to use when referring to the business community. If I used the same word to refer to others, you and the 'blog master' would be all over me)
Maybe we have a difference in terms. You and many others on this blog rail against developers, Realtors, builders, etc. I often (not always) disagree but that's another argument. The "business community" I am referring to is the shop owner, the store manager, the local business owner, the hotel manager who is the front line person responsible for generating the $14 million in sales tax dollars that frankly allow this Town to operates. Without these people this is ghost town.
When our elected folks effect policy, march on the corner opposing new businesses, cut financial support to the organizations that are out there marketing our town to the world, and when the staff of this town delay simple tenant improvement projects for unfounded "code violations", cite local stores for attempting to market their products on their sidewalk, prohibit a sandwichboard sign to be placed on a street directing potential customers to a business that is completely hidden from street view that is disrespecting the "business community". It sets a tone.
If what you allege is true,
"They had their say, and can still have some; but, no longer will the People allow for
dictatorial powers. There were false promises made, zoning regulations twisted, strong arm tactics utilized; virtually every demand of theirs' was met.",
why was the Town and individual Council members sued by Beztek? Why did SAHBA threaten to sue? Why did the Ritz move to Marana? Why did Glassworks build in Marana rather than Oro Valley? Why have many builders refused to continue building in Oro Valley? What caused the riff between TEP and Oro Valley? Why are our impact fees nearly $70,000 on new home (when included in a 30year mortgage)? Is all of this because the "business community" has "had their say"? I think not.
Doubt me? Go out and talk to the business leaders in our community. See what they say about the attitude and the governance of Oro Valley. Get some first hand knowledge and stop listening solely to the biased. Talk to the owner(s) of the new Jerry Bob's. Talk to the owner of Up and Running. Talk to the Manager of Fry's at LaCanada and Lambert. Talk to the owner of Spotlights Grille. Talk to the Manager of Desert Pointe-La Reserve Retirement Community. I can give you a list as long as your arm of the "business community" folks that have been adversely impacted by the governance of Oro Valley. I think they would strongly disagree with your casual, unfounded (to this point)assessment of business reality in Oro Valley.
So what is the basis for your comments Zev? To quote Ms. Coyote ( I believe), "Where's the beef?" in you allegations.
Cox---Zev is perfectly capable of commenting as he sees fit on this blog.
However, I'll discuss a couple of your bogus claims.
As you are so concerned about the small shop owners, who do you think is doing the most damage to these businesses?
It's a rhetorical question.
The answer is your favorite retail developer---Vestar with that worthless WalMart you're so happy to have competing with all the "mom & pop" shops, many that already closed their doors.
Secondly, your good friends on previous councils were responsible for more problems then anyone. Who am I talking about?
Johnson, Rochman & Wolfe with those $50 million giveaways.
Culver & Parish, the two Council Members who were named as defendants in the Beztak case.
As far as the Ritz moving from Oro Valley, once again it was your buddies who were in control of the council.
You may get away with this "stuff" with some of our newer residents, but those of us that were here know the facts!
Art, if OVOT really cared about small businesses and Oro Valley, he would support the Economic Development Commission as proposed. It would give those residents who also own businesses or work in Oro Valley a chance to have a voice.
But it sounds like he really fears for the out-of-town based, chain business like Fry's or Jerry Bob's who don't want to follow our zoning codes.
A lot of other citizens have worked very hard on our General Plan and our zoning codes. Frankly, I don't think that businesses should be able to violate them whenever they please. If they want them changed, they should work within the system to change them, in public, at a public meeting where citizens can express their opinions as well.
OV Mom....
I would be happy to support the EDCC if I thought it would be effective and produce positive results. Please read my posting on that specific subject.
I have a public, proven track record of supporting business, both large and small and serving my community. I would consider that an example of my "car(ing)about small business and Oro Valley.
OVOT, as I generalized an opinion based on some of my observations at Council, DRB, neighborhood meetings, I feel no need to submit a 'list'(as you have) specifying certain actions perpetrated on this community by some businesses with the 'approval' of Council, DRB, etc. Zoning regs have been twisted or ignored, definitions have been skewed or ignored, pleas for residential neighborhood consideration have been skewed or ignored and, there ARE a plethora of examples around and about. If you can't SEE/FEEL the results, then nothing I can specify to you will matter.
Now, YOU have 'submitted' a list;
so, since YOU have then please give us a breakdown of the ills encountered by the businesses you name.
OVOT, you think that because some of us make critical commentary that therefor we must be against ALL and EVERYTHING; we are not! I am not anti-OVPD, I am not anti- business; I am not anti-Naranja Park, et al. I AM for the sane utility of each and everey facet. Power is one thing, the ABUSE OF POWER is another; I AM against the latter! Can you fathom the difference?
As an aside and relative to my 'terminology' that you might use as a tool to take a 'dig at' my integrity, please get yourself up to date on the use of such. Terms, meanings, and their usages have changed over the years; not my doing but now duly accepted as okay for communication purposes.
Now, in a prior post and relative to a statement of yours, I asked what would be an overall success of Oro Valley; no one, NOT EVEN YOU responded to that question.
How about it?
Zev....
I have not seen any organized abuses of power. We did have a building inspector who was abusive but he has moved on (with some strong encouragement I think). I also believe that Melinda Garrahan, former Town Attorney, grossly abused her power on an occasion or two but those are rather isolated instances.
I too have not observed the other 'violations' (in the zoning code arena) that you allege. I think there my be more personal opinion there rather than actual occurances and that is fine. But as I have been reminded quite often, I should so state, "in my opinion..." I have tried utilize that term much more.
You asked that I provide you with a list of the "ills encountered". I had listed most of those "ills" in an earlier paragraph.
As for your last question about an overall success for Oro Valley, I must admit that I don't totally understand the scope of your question. Evidently others didn't either.
OVOT - I did not state that abuses of power were 'organized'; so, please, don't try to spin what I said by initiating your own additives.
In your last paragraph you question that I asked about [what do you consider to be the overall success of Oro Valley?] and now you then claim you don't understand the scope of the question; was it not you who utilized that very vernacular in a prior post? I believe that it WAS, in fact, and therefor, please don't place the burden of an explanation on me.
Zev...
I am not trying to spin anything. You made accusations that have yet to be nothing more than your opinion (no specific cases cited).
So far you have not made any specific identification of what you refer to when you state,
"Zoning regs have been twisted or ignored, definitions have been skewed or ignored, pleas for residential neighborhood consideration have been skewed or ignored and, there ARE a plethora of examples around and about."
As you requested of me, cite from the "plethora of examples".
Here is YOUR question:
"what would be an overall success of Oro Valley."
I challenge you to find where I posted that same question.
I, and others await your reply. You have skated by long enough.
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