Cox has a propensity to continuously make statements that have no basis for the truth. In our recent posting, What Doesn't The Northern Pima County Chamber Of Commerce Understand? ,
Cox made the following statement:
"Salette Latas applied for the Chamber endorsement and didn't get it. Bill Garner applied for the Chamber endorsement and didn't get it. Barry Gillaspie applied for the Chamber endorsement and didn't get it."
Fortunately, the three Council Members who got elected by landslides, WITHOUT any endorsement from the Northen Pima County Chamber of Commerce all saw fit to refute Cox on this blog. (Their comments are readily available along with the many others.)
Salette wrote: "I did not apply for chamber endorsement. The chamber asked me to come in for an interview, and I obliged."
Barry wrote: "I did not apply for Chamber endorsement."
Bill wrote: "I did not "apply" to be interviewed by the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce. I was afforded the opportunity via invitation by the chamber."
By the way, in the primary election, the NPCCC did NOT endorse any candidate. In the run-off election, they saw fit to endorse Terry Parish over Barry Gillaspie, which was no surprise.
Once again, we need not do anything but quote Cox to prove that he is his own worst enemy!
48 comments:
To All....
OK, let's play word games.
Salette, Bill and Barry all sought and would have willingly accepted the endorsement of the NPCCC.
Happier?
Art...
The obsession factor is showing.
:-)!!
Cox--- You refuse to accept facts. You offer an opinion---in this case that the 3 Council Members all sought and would have willingly accepted the endorsement of the NPCCC.
I'm sure you verified this ludicrous statement with Salette, Bill & Barry, prior to making it, and then restating it.
Without a doubt---you are your own worst enemy!
Art...
It has been documented that the two new Council persons and Barry are all capable of speaking on their own behalf. They were kind enough to respond and take issue with the word "apply".
If they wish to disagree with my most recent ddescription of the process then I am sure they will.
I think we have just about beaten this poor horse all we need to... but U B the 'BlogMaster'.
Just because they were interviewed by an organization does not necessarily mean that these individuals would have voted differently if they got an endorsement.
Of course just my little opinion.
So they voted not to give 27,000 to the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce.
How much money has OV given to the Northern Pima County Chamber of Commerce all total?
I'm not going to speak for Salette, but it would be incorrect to say she "sought" the NPCCC endorsement.
From what we could see at the time, this endorsement was not to her advantage. It was obvious that the NPCCC backing of the Vestar project and bring in Walmart was absolutely contrary to Salette's position of supporting the “real” small businesses in Oro Valley. Her leadership in Oro Valley First was not inline with the views of the NPCCC and “seeking” their endorsement would only confuse the voting public and, more importantly, be contrary to her position.
Obviously she was correct and NPCCC should take note. The NPCCC should now embrace the ideals of OV 1st instead of backing the out-of-town developers and bring in large multinational corporations that funnel the vast majority of money out of the region (roughly 80%). Once NPCCC starts to focus on the local community, may be the OV Town Council will reconsider funding their efforts.
Hopefully in the future, if the NPCCC is to seek the endorsement of the OV Town Council they will justify why they should be feeding on tax payer money, quantifiably and morally.
Thanks Jeff for bringing coherency to this issue.Any reasonable person can certainly understand the points you so eloquently stated.
Barry, Bill and Salette
I expected more objectivity from you. I am a constituent also. I believe playing games with Art in his attacks against certain individuals does not bode well for the Town of Oro Valley. I would hope that you could bring some class to OUR Town. Have we just traded one group of cronies for another.
I know that Salette and Bill are sharing comments at the Sun City Democratic Party meeting tonight in conjunction with the Coalition for Sonoran Desert Protection. Are these comments for or against Arroyo Grande. Shouldn’t we know all the facts before we “share comments.“ Objectivity?
Oro Valley Marketplace--it’s happening. Jobs are coming to OUR Town. Not the high tech variety but something for the common folks that helped put you on the Town Council. Speak to us too, not just the folks that only say “no” to virtually everything. Does this blog own you and you think this is where your allegiance lies?
"Turquiosesky"--- Your initial entry on our blog makes no sense.
You allege Salette, Barry & Bill are "playing games" because they all independently saw fit to respond to Cox's misrepresentation of their position.
Had they not responded, can I assume you would have accepted Cox's statement as being factual?
I don't know about any Sun City forum on Arroyo Grande. However, I would hope that Bill & Salette will endorse the position of the Coalition for Sonoran Desert Protection that desires we leave AG in its natural state.
As to your comments on the Vestar Marketplace, I expect many of these "wonderful" jobs primarily with Wal-Mart will be filled with non Oro Valley residents.
Finally, you think I "bought" the 3 council members and they promised to do whatever I say?
GET REAL!!!!
Should you wish to comment again, I hope you'll give more thought to your statement prior to clicking the "publish" button.
My comments were to B,B&S. I want to know I am being represented too and that they are not doing your bidding. You even say you hope they will endorse the Coalition findings. Aren't there studies ongoing, how can one endorse something without all the input.
As far as the Marketplace...Walmart isn't the only employer. Your elitest attitude is kicking in again.
I didn't say you bought anyone. I just want representation too. My ballot counted also.
As far as not making sense, seems to be a lot of that on your blog including some of your own.
TurquoiseSky,
Do you go to the town council meetings? That's the place for the concern you seem to have.
Hello TurquoiseSky
That is a very cool screen name!
Welcome to our blog.
We welcome your comments...ones we agree with and ones we don't.
All we ask is that we be civil with one another: That we carry on a dialogue in respectful manner.
Not always easy, as you can see.
To set the record straight:
If you've met Salette, Bill and Barry you know that there is no way they'd need any help from Art in getting their views known. And there is no way that they would ask!
We look forward to your future comments.
Zee Man,
Thank you very much for your kind words.
turquoisesky:
I also did not understand your initial entry. You opened by saying that Barry, Bill and Salette were not being objective but it wasn't clear on what issue you felt they were lacking in objectivity. Your statement was too generalized for anyone to understand its meaning.
You later made a vague reference to objectivity concerning Arroyo Grande. Bill and Salette have researched this issue thoroughly, therefore, their comments on AG are objective.
Then you said, "have we just traded one group of cronies for another." So apparently you didn't like the "cronies" who lost their re-election bid, so I have to assume that you voted for Barry, Bill and Salette.
OK. Then you asked if Bill and Salette's comments tonight regarding Arroyo Grande will be "for" or "against." If you attended any of the candidate forums prior to the election or if you read any of the campaign literature that you received in the mail or that was left outside your door, or if you read any of the articles in the Explorer regarding the candidates' positions, then you would KNOW the answer to your question!
Where have YOU been all this time??!!
Then you brought up Oro Valley Marketplace and claimed that it will provide jobs for the "common folks" who put Bill, Barry, and Salette on the council. Again, where have you been? The people who voted for them are against this run-of-the-mill mall and vehemently oppose Wal-Mart as the anchor!
So, did you vote for Bill and Salette, having no idea what they stood for (in which case you have no right to be upset with them now) or did you vote to re-elect Dankwerth and Parish, whom you referred to as "cronies?"
As you can see, your comments thus far make absolutely no sense!
Read up on the issues, get informed, and then come back and join the conversation. And stop with the name-calling (cronies, elitists) if you want to be taken seriously.
Art....Take a lesson from Zeeman on how to welcome new folks to the blog. Your diatribe only reinforces my observations that you only want to hear one side of any issue.
VC.... Just wanted to let you know I appreciate your request to the 'blogmaster' regarding the comment posted by one of his ignorant friends. I found it interesting that when the post was made that he did nothing until he was chided. It's just another in the continuous string of indicators of the desired objectivity of the 'blogmaster'.
Cox--- Once again you make ignorant statements with no basis for facts.
You're the last person that should be giving advice.
Next---when any number of new bloggers see fit to partake, I've welcomed them. You need not go beyond "endthehandouts" who commented just the other day.
You refer to to this person as "one of my ignorant friends." That statement shows who's ignorant. I have no idea who is behind that pseudonym.
Finally, the comment you allude to was deleted when I read through the myriad of comments. In case you don't know it, I use my discretion in what to remove, but I can't remove something until I see it.
Once again. with your arrogance, don't even think of preaching to anyone else.
Art....
As Zev would say...same old same old. You cme up with excuse after excuse.
You are on my comments (like this last one) like stink on caca, and yet you want all of us to believe that you just missed his. Who do you think you are fooling?
Just a couple of comments as I have been, for the most part, unavailable for the past several days:
To those of you who believe that Wal-mart will be providing jobs for the locals, be advised that the application/hiring center
is in the vicinity of Lowes/Target Center at Ina and Thornydale roads; this suite has a banner sign, thus seemingly not a permanent facility. I would assume from this that therefor the jobs will be mainly for those living outside of our municipal area.
AND NOW A COMMENT ABOUT THE REST OF THIS STREAM:
The meat of the topic has gotten buried in a quagmire of reckless muck - accusations, suppositions, baloney, personal attack, and blind bias, etc., all of this nonsense has obfuscated the 'story' here. There is a real subject matter that has apparently gotten lost in this sinkhole and that is the very subject matter of it all. There IS an opportunity to learn here, but only if civility and proper questions are addressed.
MY QUESTION(S)(AGAIN): WHAT HAS NPCCC DONE FOR ORO VALLEY OVER THAT PAST YEARS TO WARRANT A GRANT OF $27,000+? WHAT HAS THE NPCCC DONE FOR ORO VALLEY THAT WE CANNOT DO FOR OURSELVES?
AND FINALLY, let's stop the game of who solicited, who got, who wanted, who begged for, paid for, or whatever in exchange for an endorsement from this Chamber; for me THAT is much ado about very little!
Bravo, Zev.
On target as usual.
Hi Jeff.
While you begin your dialog with a disclaimer, it certainly sounds like you are speaking for Salette. When you use pronouns like “we” it sounds like you are speaking for more than one (I). But lets look at your comments.
“From what we could see at the time, this endorsement was not to her advantage.”
Then why accept the invitation? Let’s draw a parallel. If in your unsuccessful bid for a congressional seat, you would have been offered a chance to appear with George Bush, you probably would have declined the offer. Salette could have done the same thing with NPCCC. She didn’t. Therefore a reasonable thinking person could draw the conclusion that she was not opposed to the NPCCC’s positions on supporting ALL business in Oro Valley, and that she sought their endorsement. Just as a side comment, the possibility of endorsement is discussed with each candidate, at every interview. It is quite easy at that time to opt out.
The NPCCC supports business in Oro Valley. Big or small, locally owned or national chain, the NPCCC believes that business is good for business. Obviously businesses that are considered detrimental to the community are not supported. I am not sure what you mean by “real” small businesses in Oro Valley. Are there artificial small businesses? The last time I checked the business licenses of those businesses listed on the OV 1st web site as “locally owned businesses” more than half of them were not “locally” owned. So your comment about a “real” small business and OV 1st’s list is very confusing.
On Salette’s web site when it was initially posted, stated that she wanted to encourage residents of Oro Valley and surrounding communities to shop in Oro Valley so we (Oro Valley residents) could reap the benefits of the sales tax revenue. That statement was in direct conflict with the position of OV 1st, to NOT shop at Oro Valley Marketplace. That was an interesting conflict which in my opiion could never be defended. I believe that the statement has since been removed from her site. One would wonder why.
Supporting business in Oro Valley is a positive and healthy position for all elected officials. The dollars which flow to the revenue side of the Oro Valley ledger are equal. When it comes to paying the bills does it make a difference whether they come from Wal-Mart or Interior Expressions?
Quoting Cox from your much earlier comment----"The obsession factor is showing."
Give it up. THe council voted 7-0 to approve the budget with no funding to the NPCCC.
Further comment from you on this issue will verify my title of this posting.
Art...
Rest assured your classless comments will not slow or alter my postings.
Insulting the business community is not good politics and it certainly is not good management.
Zev…
Welcome back.
I will make an attempt to answer some of what you ask. I don’t serve on the Chamber board and therefore I am not privy to specific information. Knowing my desire to speak from a fact base this makes me uneasy but I am confident that you can appreciate the information even without specific numerical data.
The Chamber sponsors (financially and with volunteer support) many community-oriented programs that accrue to the benefit of Oro Valley. I’ll name two. Each year the Chamber provides hundreds of back packs, filled with school supplies, to elementary school students. While people may scoff at this thinking that every family with school aged children in Oro Valley is financially sound, you would be very surprised at the number that are not. Just as some people gasped at the number of seniors in Sun City being assisted by food banks there are needy younger families in our midst also. The Chamber has a great scholarship program for local students. The grants are not large but every penny counts to some of these students.
The Chamber is the host organization each year for the State of the Town Address. This is a very important annual event attended by some 500-600 people at the Hilton Hotel. The Chamber personnel do all of the administrative work associated with putting on this huge event which has grown in popularity each year.
One of the cornerstones of the NPCCC is their business-to-business program. They strongly encourage every Chamber member to shop FIRST at another chamber member’s establishment. The benefit to Oro Valley is the sales tax generated by this program. I suspect that this program alone generates well over the $27,000 in question. I don’t have specific statistics for this and as I previously mentioned I am uncomfortable mentioning it but I think the fruit from this tree is pretty obvious. Personally, as a Chamber member, I will NOT shop (including eating out) outside of Oro Valley unless the product(s) or services are not available locally or sold at a price that is prohibitive.
The Chamber is the organization that sends out/provides local information to any individual who happens to place a call, e-mails or stops by the Town offices seeking such information. I believe that the annual number of such requests is relatively high. Again I do not know the actual number.
There are many more tangible and intangible benefits an active Chamber of Commerce contributes to any community. Many of the awards that Oro Valley has received in the past 5-10 years (Family Circle being the latest) have as a heavily weighted criteria a strong and vibrant business atmosphere. Major corporations looking to relocate also look for a strong business climate.
A healthy business climate in any community accrues to the benefit of that community. The sales tax, generated by members of the NPCCC, that flows into the Oro Valley general fund which in turn helps keep our individual taxes low is huge. And while it can be argued that that money will still flow in the future, I don’t think it is bad business or fiscal irresponsibility to give the business community a slap on the back for being a great partner in the success of our Town. When you consider that the population of Oro Valley is somewhere close to 44,000 I believe $0.61 cents per person is a bargain
Again, I want to make sure that it is clear that I am not speaking on behalf of the NPCCC, I just believe that the decision to not continue the very small contribution to offset some of their expenses, sends a very bad message to the local business community which is the financial backbone of Oro Valley AND to businesses thinking about relocating to our area.
OV OT
Thank you for your rationally conceived and presented opinion piece on the NPCCC; it did present another insight and that type of post is beneficial. NPCCC does need to stay out of local politics, however, simply because it should, in the overall picture of things, represent the WHOLE of the community.
Mr. Cox,
Of course Councilmember Latas and I had many tactical and strategic discussions during her campaign. But, I don’t speak for her; she can do that much better on her own.
You asked, “Then why accept the invitation?” when referring to my point that Salette did not seek the NPCCC endorsement. Since you are one of the interviewing members, you should know why. If Salette and Bill would have declined the opportunity to interview, they would have made it easy for the political arm of the NPCCC to endorse to the incumbents for the primary. Just by the act of facing the incumbents on that battleground, candidates Latas and Garner effected a draw when the endorsement was not given to the incumbents. The victory in this small battle and in the entire campaign accrued to the challengers.
Your analogy regarding Bush is poor. I would not accept an endorsement from a president with the lowest approval ratings in recorded history. I’m not even sure why Bee is doing so. See http://x4mr.blogspot.com/2008/07/eggplants-pre-tucson-visit-numbers.html.
It would have been very newsworthy to have a neocon Republican President even consider endorsing a progressive Democrat. It would have been even more incongruous if I would have accepted an endorsement from someone who I believe should be impeached, someone who I believe could have prevented the deaths of over 3000 Americans on Sept 11, 2001 due to all the intelligence of an impending attack, someone who misled this country into an illegal invasion based on the fiction that Iraq had WMDs (I worked in the Pentagon on counter technology of WMD and had the same intel this administration had, and I knew prior to 9/11 and the 2003 invasion of Iraq that there were no functional WMDs in the hands of Saddam Hussein). I would never acknowledge support from someone who has stolen my Constitutional rights and yours. I would never accept an endorsement from a tyrant.
I hope you are not implying the NPCCC is anything like the Bush administration. The NPCCC is a good organization that should not be taking money from a government they lobby. The NPCCC was the only chamber in the region that accepted government funding. All other chambers have kept the boundaries very clear and have understood the consequences of government funding and endorsements.
You stated “Obviously businesses that are considered detrimental to the community are not supported,” but yet the NPCCC supported a tax subsidy for Vestar, which brought us Wal-mart.
Just a note for protocol: I have never granted you permission to address me on a first-name basis and I don’t know that Councilmembers Latas or Garner have opened that door either.
Mr. Cox, Mr. Latas, et al:
In past postings I have been a strong advocate for keeping political party affiliations/philosophies, etc. OUT of local 'operations'. Being a Republican or a Democrat is an approach to national governmental operational structure, not a LOCAL one; being a Conservative or Liberal is simply an approach as to how the US Constitution is 'viewed'. None of these labels have anything to do with whether or not Oro Valley should be 'this or that'. OV OT, for you to have compared an 'appearance with Bush' with an 'appearance at NPCCC' is not only out of the realm of a reasonable assessment, but was a not-so-subtle dig at Mr. Latas - inappropriate at best. Mr. Latas, that you utilized this stream to proselytize against President Bush was ill advised and unnecessary in order to drive home that which might be an otherwise legitimate point. Your post has the capability of stirring 'passions' which, though nationally philosophical in scope, could backlash downwards to obfuscate LOCAL consensus on even those issues towards for which we might have common bent.
Over the past year I have had many a lengthy conversation with Ms. Latas and Mr. Garner and somewhat with Mr. Gillaspie. Though a 'touch' of party 'affiliations' did arise (very briefly), this subject became moot when we got to the 'meat' and discussed ORO VALLEY. In the course of my conversations I found all three candidates, not necessarily in agreement on all things civic, were thoughtful, fiscally aware, and were concerned that the Town should go forth in a controlled and responsible manner. I was impressed that none of them 'pushed' party politicism as a cause celebre. It was because of their emphases on local issues that they earned my respect and thus my support.
Zev,
I have a different take on this conversation. (You knew I would!)
Cox asked the question and Jeff Latas answered it, and he gave his reasons why he would have declined the endorsement.
Since Cox is all about facts, I think Jeff was smart to offer some facts as to why he would decline the offer. It will be difficult for Cox to argue with those facts.
Cox frequently offers "inside information" and facts that he is privy to because of the different boards or commissions he has been involved with. In this instance, Jeff was able to offer some "inside information" and facts of his own.
Although party politics may not belong at the local level, in reality, our ideologies are present in everything we do.
Zev....Agree with 90% of your post. The only intent of the analogy was to say that if a candidate (any candidate) does not want an endorsement they are free to and undermost circumstances, do decline the appearance. It was not meant as a did against Jeff nor did the thought cross my mind.
I will have a response for Jeff's posting shortly.
VC....
I didn't ask a question of Jeff. I stated that he would decline the offer. I didn't ask for his political opinion on why he would decline the offer. Furthermore, Jeff failed to state any facts. He simply stated his opinion on some matters and you can find some of the same radical opinions in most any conspiracy theory publication.
I enjoy hearing some new opinions, it gets sort of boring
as most of us agree with each other most of the time.
Not saying I agree with Jeff Latas about everything but think it's admirable that somebody who has some strong opinions about issues
and just tells it like they see it.
Most of us do a lot of dancing without moving forward or backward.
Even if the Chamber had endorsed Salette Latas and Bill Garner it does not mean that they would have
been in favor of funding OV dollars to the Chamber of Commerce.
I don't want my local officials being up for sale.
National politics is a lost cause.
Cox writes in reference to his earlier comment about Jeff Latas---
"It was not meant as a did (sic) against Jeff nor did the thought cross my mind."
I assume the word is "dig."
Does anybody in their right mind come close to believing Cox, who went out of his way to demean Jeff with his totally unnecessary comment--"If in your unsuccessful bid for a congressional seat, you would have been offered a chance to appear with George Bush, you probably would have declined the offer."
Talk about "unsuccessful bids," Cox couldn't manage to get elected to the OV Council, let alone, even appointed to the Board of Adjustment.
Jeff Latas is a true gentleman.
Cox proves time and again, he deserves no respect for his words or deeds.
Jeff,
The fact that you admit that the intent was to possibly minimize the Chamber endorsement (“The victory in this small battle…..) certainly indicates that there was a definitive political strategy in participating in the process. That certainly is a different position that the proposed innocence of other statements. (“I wanted to extend the chamber the courtesy of accepting their invitation, and I did.”, and “The chamber asked me to come in for an interview, and I obliged.”). So I pose the question, is it appropriate to agree to participate in a political process and then be critical of the organization for conducting a political process?
The analogy was only to the extent that you would turn down the request which I believe was the more appropriate path for Salette. The end result of that interview process was endorsement or non-endorsement which I believe was clear to all participants.
I won’t comment on your radical positions regarding other political topics. And
I have made no attempt to link the Bush administration and the NPCCC.
I do not believe Wal Mart will be a detriment to the community. I doubt that Marana would consider Wal Mart a detriment. We will let the customer counts and sales figures answer that question. But I am still interested in what you referred to as the “real” businesses in Oro Valley. You seem to have just glossed over that and it peaks my curiosity.
As for your protocol comment, I hate to burst your ‘conceit bubble’ but I don’t need your permission to address you on a first name basis nor do you need mine. And as I have mentioned before I think others are quite capable of speaking for themselves. But I would point out that your wife posted under the name of “Salette”, Bill posted under the name of “Bill Garner”, and you posted under the name of Jeff Latas.
Art...Respect from you is not needed, expected or desired. That might ruin my reputation among the Anti-Art crowd.....of which there are many!! :-)
Have a great week-end!!
I find Jeff Latas’ recent rant, with his irreverent and conspiratorial tone not only ridiculous, but out of place on this blog.
In their typical blogging fashion, one would only expect, Art, VC and Ms. Coyote to find positives in his remarks and they did.
I am losing confidence in expecting balance from Mrs. Latas in the future. Politics, conspiracy theories, and protests seem to be a part of the Latas history. Google their names, you might find some thought provoking stuff out there in cyberspace.
Observer 77--- Why not get out of the cesspool?
The Latas family , Jeff, Salette & their late war hero son Jesse, have served our country with honor and distinction.
If anything is not worthy of this blog, it's your comment. I'm sure you feel comfortable making it, hidden by your choice of using a pseudonym.
Thinker,
You said to Jeff Latas, "If in your unsuccessful bid for a congressional seat, you would have been offered a chance to appear with George Bush, you probably would have declined the offer."
No, it wasn't phrased in the form of a question, but it WAS phrased in a way that deserved a response. He explained why Salette didn't want an endorsement from the Chamber and then explained why HE wouldn't want an endorsement from GWB, a topic that YOU brought up.
You also said that Jeff didn't state any facts, just opinions, and that his opinions are radical. So it's not a fact that there were no WMD's in Iraq? It's not a fact that Bush has violated the Constitution? It's not a fact that our gov't was warned with a memo prior to 9/11 that said, "bin Laden determined to strike within the U.S"? It's not a fact that there was also an FBI memo that stated that men of Middle-Eastern descent were trying to learn how to fly planes but not how to take off or land them? It's not a fact that no one acted on that huge red flag?
Why is it a "radical opinion" when someone states the facts?
Observer 77,
I would challenge you to quote verbatim exactly what Jeff said that was "ridiculous" and "conspiratorial."
You also claim that I defended Jeff because of my "typical blogging fashion." So what exactly is my typical blogging fashion according to you?
To All....And in Art's nasty, classless, flagrant way he denegrates another person who has a view other than his own.
The longer you allow him to get away without your rebuke, the longer you and your opinions are going to associated with that kind of behavior.
Mr. Cox,
You asked, “So I pose the question, is it appropriate to agree to participate in a political process and then be critical of the organization for conducting a political process?” My answer is yes.
You also said, “I won’t comment on your radical positions regarding other political topics.” But you did with “Furthermore, Jeff failed to state any facts. He simply stated his opinion on some matters and you can find some of the same radical opinions in most any conspiracy theory publication.”
Here are some facts, since you want them:
While serving in the USAF, I had a tour of duty in the Pentagon as a Weapon Requirement Officer, where I was one of the officers in charge of starting a program known as “Agent Defeat Weapon.” This was a weapon that would be designed to neutralize WMDs with little to no collateral damage. The intelligence we had was the same as what our top government official had prior to invading Iraq. Iraq had no WMDs. If that is conspiratorial, than so be it. The real conspirators are firmly entrenched in the top level of our US government.
Here is a sample of what I found, on my own about the some of the intelligence data from sources outside of those you would consider conspiratorial. (Sorry Art, I think I needed to take up some space for this).
I have found 362 documented Official Intelligence Events Leading up to Sept 11, 2001. Here are a few of them.
• May 30, 2001: CIA Leaders Warn Rice about Expected Al-Qaeda Attack
• May 30, 2001: FBI Is Warned of Major Al-Qaeda Operation in the US Involving Hijackings, Explosives, and/or New York City
• Summer 2001: Threat Alerts Increase to Record High
• Summer 2001: NSA Fails to Share Intercepted Information about Calls between Atta and KSM
• Summer 2001: Bin Laden Speech Mentions 20 Martyrs in Upcoming Attack; Other Hints of Attack Spread Widely
• June-July 2001: Terrorist Threat Reports Surge, Frustration with White House Grows
• June 2, 2001: Wolfowitz Discusses Danger of Surprise Attack, Like Pearl Harbor
• June 4, 2001: Congressional Committee Warned of Large Attacks Soon
• June 9, 2001-July 10, 2001: Wright Says FBI Unit Is Making ‘Virtually No Effort’ to Neutralize Known Terrorists Inside the US
• June 20, 2001: Time Magazine Mentions Al-Qaeda Planning to Use Planes as Weapons
• June 22, 2001: CIA Warns of Imminent Al-Qaeda Suicide Attack
• June 23, 2001: White House Warned ‘Bin Laden Attacks May Be Imminent’
• June 25, 2001: White House Warned Multiple Attacks Are Expected within Days
• June 28, 2001: Clarke Warns Rice That Threat Level Has Reached a Peak
• June 28, 2001: Tenet Warns Rice of Imminent Al-Qaeda Attack
• June 30-July 1, 2001: New York Times Reporter, Judith Miller,Told Al-Qaeda Is ‘Planning Something So Big the US Will Have to Respond,’ but Fails to Publish Warning
• July-August 2001: Translator Alleges FBI Agent Is Deliberately Deceived Regarding Skyscraper Warning
• July 1, 2001: Senators Warn of Al-Qaeda Attack Within Three Months
• July 5, 2001: Genoa Planes as Weapons Threat Helps Inspire Bush to Ask For Famous August 2001 Briefing
• July 6, 2001: Clarke Tells Rice to Warn Agencies to Prepare for 3 to 5 Simultaneous Attacks; No Apparent Response
• July 6, 2001: Clarke Tells Rice to Warn Agencies to Prepare for 3 to 5 Simultaneous Attacks; No Apparent Response
• July 10, 2001: FBI Agent Sends Memo Warning that Unusual Number of Muslim Extremists Are Learning to Fly in Arizona
• July 10-11, 2001: Conference Held in Washington on Preparing the US for Domestic Terrorism
• July 10, 2001: CIA Director Gives Urgent Warning to White House of Imminent, Multiple, Simultaneous Al-Qaeda Attacks, Possibly Within US
• July-Late August 2001: Clinton Impeachment Lawyer Tries to Warn about Al-Qaeda Attack on Lower Manhattan
• August 2001: FEMA Warns of Likely Terrorist Attack on New York
• August 2001: FAA Told to Warn Airlines of Hijacking or Airliner Bombing in New York, Atlanta, and Other Locations
• Early August 2001: Government Informant Warns Congressmen of Plan to Attack the WTC
• August 1, 2001: Actor James Woods Communicates Concerns to Stewardess That Airplane Will Be Hijacked; Warning Forwarded to the FAA
• August 6, 2001: Bush Briefing Titled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US’
• September 1, 2001: American Airlines Issues Internal Memo Warning of Imposters
• Shortly Before September 6, 2001: CIA Secretly Warns FAA about Imminent, Spectacular Attack from Muslim Fundamentalists
• September 9, 2001: Congressman Foresees Something Terrible Will Happen in Wake of Massoud Assassination
• September 9, 2001: New York Times Reports Bin Laden ‘Promises More Attacks’; Article Will Be Removed Shortly After 9/11
• September 10, 2001: US Generals Warned Not to Fly on Morning of 9/11
• September 10, 2001: Alarm Bells Sound over Unusual Trading in US Stock Options Market
• September 10, 2001: US Intercepts: ‘Watch the News’ and ‘Tomorrow Will Be a Great Day for Us’
• September 10, 2001: NSA Monitors Call as KSM Gives Atta Final Approval to Launch Attacks
• Summer 2001: Israel Warns US of ‘Big Attack’
• June 2001: Germans Warn of Plan to Use Aircraft as Missiles on US and Israeli Symbols
• June 4, 2001: Illegal Afghans Overheard Discussing New York City Hijacking Attack
• June 13, 2001: Egypt Leader Hears Bin Laden Wants to Assassinate Bush with an Explosives-Filled Airplane.
• July 2001: India Warns US of Possible Terror Attacks
• July 2001: Jordan Warns that Al-Qaeda Is Planning Attack Inside US
• Late July 2001: Argentina Relays Warning to the US
• Late July 2001: Taliban Foreign Minister Tries to Warn US and UN of Huge Attack Inside the US
• Late July 2001: Egypt Warns CIA of 20 Al-Qaeda Operatives in US; Four Training to Fly; CIA Is Not Interested
• Late July 2001: Taliban Intelligence Chief Wants Secret Contact with US to ‘Save Afghanistan’
• Late Summer 2001: Jordan Warns US That Aircraft Will Be Used in Major Attack Inside the US
• August 2001: Moroccan Informant Warns US of Large Scale, Imminent Attack in New York
• August 2001: Russia Warns US of Suicide Pilots
• Early August 2001: Britain Warns US Again; Specifies Multiple Airplane Hijackings
• August 2-3, 2001: Taliban Official Predicts US Will Invade Afghanistan by Mid-October, Possibly in Response to Major Attack Inside US
• August 8-15, 2001: Israel Reportedly Warns of Major Assault on the US
• August 22, 2001: French Connect Moussaoui to Chechen Rebels, FBI Headquarters Still Refuses Search Warrant
• August 30, 2001-September 4, 2001: Egypt Warns Al-Qaeda Is in Advanced Stages of Planning Significant Attack on US
• Late August 2001: French Warning to US Echoes Earlier Israeli Warning
• September 4, 2001: Mossad Gives Another Warning of Major, Imminent Attack
• September 7, 2001: French Give ‘Very Specific Information’ about Possible Attack on US Soil
• 6:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Two Hours Before Attacks, Israeli Company Employees Receive Warnings
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=0&before_9/11=warnings
Jeff--- Although we have enough issues of concern in Oro Valley, I appreciate that you took the time and put in the effort on your last post.
I will not respond to Cox as it is obvious I'd have more success in teaching a javelina to roll over than to have an intelligent dialog with him.
Perhaps now we can get back to OV issues.
Thanks Art,
I agree. Like my recently scratched cornea, Mr. Cox is an irritant. He has lost all his political clout and is relegated to making less-than-constructive remarks on this blog. The difference between him and my injured eye is that I can ignore a bitter old man
Jeff...
I don't want this blog to become a sounding board for your rage against the present administration or any other administration. So I will make my comment on your recent post very brief.
1. Everything you posted as "Official Intelligence Events" are warnings and not actionable intelligence. Everyone in the United States knows that the intelligence community at that time was fractured, underfunded (by you know who) and there was limited inter-agency communications. This was not the fault of the Bush Administration.
2. If President Clinton had taken Bin laden out when he had the opportunity to do so, maybe the events of 9/11/01 never would have happened. We'll never know.
If possible turn your focus inward and answer the other questions posed to you regarding local events....if you wish.
Has anybody noticed Cox feels compelled to get the last word on just about anything.
As the blog master, any further comment from him that is not pertinent to Oro Valley will be deleted.
Art
Mr. Cox,
You state:
"Salette, Bill and Barry all sought and would have willingly accepted the endorsement of the NPCCC."
And yet, you have no evidence to support this statement.
"If they wish to disagree with my most recent ddescription of the process then I am sure they will."
I do.
"On Salette’s web site when it was initially posted, stated that she wanted to encourage residents of Oro Valley and surrounding communities to shop in Oro Valley so we (Oro Valley residents) could reap the benefits of the sales tax revenue. That statement was in direct conflict with the position of OV 1st, to NOT shop at Oro Valley Marketplace. That was an interesting conflict which in my opiion could never be defended. I believe that the statement has since been removed from her site. One would wonder why."
Again, you make unsubstatntiated statements. I have always supported locally owned, independent businesses.
jeff...
I have never had any political clout to my knowledge so I find your reference to be without merit. And now you want to insult those senior to you (but you can still call me Don) by referring to an individusl of 64 years as a "bitter old man". Based on the tone of the posts I think there may be some bitterness but I don't think it is I.
Art....Just make sure the rule applies to all. I have kept my discussion local.
LOVE,
Don
Cox--- Go back and read your comment, or better yet, I'll put it here to make it easier for you.
In addressing Jeff Latas, you wrote---
"Let’s draw a parallel. If in your unsuccessful bid for a congressional seat, you would have been offered a chance to appear with George Bush, you probably would have declined the offer. Salette could have done the same thing with NPCCC."
George Bush is not associated with Oro Valley. You initiated the reference. So don't now write:
"Art....Just make sure the rule applies to all. I have kept my discussion local."
Also---- you do NOT set the rules on MY blog, so don't tell me what I must or must not do.
Period!!!
Greetings All,
Just my opinion here.
But isn't it time to end this thread? It is so far off base and so full of personal attacks that its not a constructive dialogue.
It Oro Valley that we care about. Let's focus on that and that alone.
I think that is a fine idea.
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