Good grief! Twenty three million two hundred thousand dollars coming from OUR tax revenue.
All our readers should not forget. If you shop ----for example----at Target, Office Max, Petsmart, Home Depot, Sports Authority, Pier One, or Ross---Oro Valley keeps 100% of the sales tax revenue.
Why allow Vestar to pocket OUR MONEY from this Marketplace? Be smart. Shop there ONLY when absolutely necessary.
Does anybody believe the following PR BS from their web site?
"Oro Valley Marketplace has amassed a brilliant collection of boutiques, national retail anchors, unique eateries and traditional restaurants. For a quick bite, a special occasion, a gallon of milk, or an afternoon of retail therapy, the marketplace delivers."
23 comments:
Under 'Store Directory' - the "Oro Valley Marketplace" has amassed a BRILLIANT collection of..."; what was the writer smoking when he/she
used such poetic license in order to 'puff' the project? WOW MAN!
Hopefully this updated list of tenants is out of date. The Pr says the marketplace will have boutiques , hmm I did not see anything remotely
that would be considered a boutique.
So you can go to a movie, gas up your car, buy junk at the junk store,(Wal-Mart), grab a packaged sandwich at Danny's gourmet and then go buy some liquor.
Whopee!! All this for 23.2 million.
Ok to be fair there are a few decent stores and restaurants.
But come on, this is not an upscale mall by any stretch of imagination.
Face it, Vestar sucker punched the voters.
Vestar lied!
I would also be very careful and think twice before spending your hard earned money on a gift card purchase for this mall.
You may end up having the gift card good only for shopping at a few stores, so why bother.
From the list provided it looks like Vestar is having a lot of trouble finding tenants, even mid price stores, let alone nicer stores. Again, Vestar scammed OV.
Yes, these are the same stores they've been "bragging" about for the past year. I think Dress Barn is the only new one. Sure looks like they're having trouble negotiating tenants.
Boutiques? What boutique store is going to open up in a mall where Wal-Mart is the anchor?
Notice how the words "upscale" and "unique" have been replaced with "convenient shopping." I also laughed at the "has amassed a brilliant collection of...." BS.
This is an Anywhere, USA mall and anyone who thinks otherwise is apparently smoking the same stuff that Vestar is!
How about 'Danny's GOURMET MARKET'? It's a car wash (and gas pumps?) with a little bit of a larger 'quick-mart' than most. Another con job title!
I am assuming that most of you have heard of the Desert Ridge shopping center in north Phoenix which was referenced as a 'model' by Vestar in projecting an image for the OV Marketplace; the following are a couple of
quotes relative to that project:
April 29, 2005, 'Business Journal'
Phoenix
"Unlike the more upscale Kierland Commons, the District at Desert Ridge unabashedly courts the Generation Y contingent, consumers between the ages of 8 and 21. It has become the North Valley's Mecca
for the young demographic Vestar craves". (Rob Adams, author, article - Lifestyle centers reshaping retail market)
Bouyed by it's success, Larcher (Vestar?) said [Desert Ridge Marketplace serves as Vestar's blueprint for it's other projects underway throughout the Valley, including......., all of which will incorporate the District concept].
"A Friday or Saturday evening visit to the District is reminiscent of a stroll through Times Square, Southern California's Universal City Walk............and mesquite trees in huge terra cotta planters serve as gathering points for a variety of youthful cliques" (Rob Adams, writer).
Me:
Desert Ridge compared to Times Square? Is everyone smokin' the stuff?
April 18, 2006
Trust in Justin/News/Phoenix Real Estate
Webber Hudson, executive vice president of Related Urban Development, which is leasing the retail for City North (the up-scale retail/office/hospitality development adjacent to Desert Ridge Marketplace being built by the Klutznick Company) states that [the two retail projects will not compete because the stores at City North will be "three to four notches above" what is found at Desert Ridge Marketplace]. "This is going to be much more sophisticated".
The above are a combination of quotes from the articles as written by the respective authors as well as direct quotes attributed
to the included company 'agents' as
attributed by said writers.
Zev---as you know,City North is the development involved in the Goldwater Institute legal action as a result of a $97+ million dollar giveaway to the out of state developer.
By the way, David Larcher is Vestar's executive VP. He was as deceptive as David Malin concerning what they were bringing to Oro Valley.
While we can expect the residents of Oracle & Catalina to frequent this monster marketplace, we hope the Oro Valley residents are more circumspect and support the retailers NOT associated with any giveaways.
Hopefully it was not lost in my post, that, per the articles relative to Vestar's 'Districts' vs a City North type project, Vestar's niche is that they provide a 3rd to 4th rate group of stores/facilities in order to attract youth groups and, thus a place for same to 'hang out'.
As to the individual businesses, aside from Wal-Mart, it would be very speculative to affirm that the other stores would know that they might be, in some ways, beneficiaries of the tax give-away even though they might have received some bennies to 'help' them get established within the center i.e. reduced or free rent for their 1st couple of months, build out consideration, etc. In my own personal experiences these have been a not-too-unusual benefit granted by a developer to a business but not one predicated on the huge gulp of tax monies granted to the developer by a municipality.
I know there has been much disappointment regarding this shopping center and its "unique" collection of stores.
However, I disagree with the idea of not shopping at the stores. There is justified outrage in the percentage of sales tax that the developer will take, however any amount of sales tax, is a good amount.
There is much justified complaints about taxes, well this shopping center will bring in sales tax from residents of Catalina and Marana. So let us not forget that there monies will be excellent contributers to Oro Valley.
Yes, but if they shop at stores in Oro Valley that are NOT located at OVM, then the entire 2% sales tax on their purchases goes to OV.
If they shop at Oro Valley Marketplace stores instead, then Vestar will get 45% of that money.
So on a $100 purchase made at Target (at Oracle and First) $2.00 goes to OV.
On a $100 purchase made at Wal-Mart at OVM, only $1.10 goes to OV.
90 cents will go to Vestar.
Why should we give Vestar anything? They lied to us. Giving them my money means that I am rewarding them for bad behavior.
If no one shops at OVM, then it will go bust which is what Vestar deserves. Then perhaps a more reputable developer will buy the property and bring us the upscale shops that we were promised.
vic cowboy.
Money is money.
So you want it to go bust and then we get great stores like FOOD MAXX or low budget garbage to come in there.
Vestar may be a thief and a liar, but if the stores go bust then they will lower the rent and it will really be your worst nightmare.
WAKE UP PEOPLE.
If you shop there the rent will actually go up and the unique stores that we want will go in because the rent will go up.
So take your pick WalMART or junk grocery stores like FOOD MAX that sell dented cans and spoiled meat.
kkjon,
Wal-Mart IS low-budget garbage! They have sold baby bibs laced with lead and dog treats laced with melamine. Thousands of pets died last year as a result of ingesting this poison. And where do babies put everything? In their mouths. Do you know anything about lead poisoning? Another woman received severe burns on her feet from wearing a pair of rubber flip-flops she bought at Wal-Mart.
You contradict yourself. In another post you say you have to shop at Wal-Mart because that's all you can afford. In this post you say, "money is money" and you imply that there is no difference in whether Oro Valley collects $2.00 in sales tax on a $100 dollar purchase or if they collect only $1.10. You can't have it both ways so make a decision.
Regarding OVM, you said, "If you shop there the rent will actually go up and the unique stores that WE want will go in because the rent will go up." Yet on another post you said you want Wal-Mart and accused those of us who want something better as being, "rich and mighty." Again you have contradicted yourself. Do you want Wal-Mart or do you want the unique and upscale shopping that Vestar promised us?
And my name is CowGIRL not CowBOY.
Well if you feel that money is money, hey let it rip. Why not have a adult theme store or other objectionable types of stores or entertainment.
Wal Mart money is "dirty" money as far as I am concerned.
Wal Mart is a junk store.
So far as people traveling to shop till they drop at the OV junk store.
Why would they travel to OV to shop for junk when they will soon have their own junk stores.
Ms. Coyote,
We think alike! A few months ago I stated in another post that if it's all about money, well then, why don't we just toss in a strip joint, an adult video store, and a sex toy store. Those entities bring in tons of money.
I think it was Thinker who wrote back that the area is not zoned for that. No problem. A developer can just ask for a rezoning and... presto-change-o...it's a done deal! That's usually how it works in Oro Valley. The zoning can be changed if there's money to be made from doing so.
Not that I want to see this happen. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. If Wal-Mart is acceptable to some people, well, adult entertainment is also acceptable to some people.
Also, kkjon, you called those living in Oro Valley "rich and mighty" so I assume that you do not live in this town. So how would you like it if we fought to have something built in YOUR town that you didn't approve of?
Vic Cowgirl
I did not contradict myself. I am simply pointing out my opinion about your opinion.
My "rich and mighty" comment is my opinion of a stance that does not seem to understand that WM can serve a useful purpose.
If you don't want to shop there then I guess I will not bump into you when I buy my junk and garbarge.
And yes money is money.
OV is about to increase the budget to over 200 million next year. I would like the money to come from places other than my property tax.
KK - how 'bout a lower budget?
kkjon,
You didn't answer my question. Do you live in Oro Valley?
THE FOLLOWING IS THE BRILLIANTLY AMASSED COLLECTION OF STOREFRONTS
BLESSING THE ORO VALLEY MARKETPLACE (with a few editorial comments)
BEST BUY - okay but not unique - poor service, but, a desirable addition - did not at all appreciate their insistance on
utilizing their garish, out of ordinance, sign
BEV MO - nice store/wine warehouse,
found wines less expensive at grocery stores
CHASE BANK- my bank
CENTURY THEATERS- don't know them
but I do like a nearby theater as long as they cater, in part, to some of the more 'mature' patrons.
COST PLUS (WORLD MARKET) - pretty shabby merchandise
DANNY'S GOURMET MARKET - what a con - it's a major CAR WASH with a large 'while-you-wait lounge' - their stores in Phoenix have gas pumps and lines and seem to charge higher prices for gas than most individual stations
DICK'S SPORTING GOODS - wow, the THIRD major sporting goods store encompassed within a couple of miles. Is Oro Valley to become one of the largest markets for sporting goods in the country? Well, I guess if the park er sports complex issue passes......
DRESSBARN - an ordinary mall store - okay ,I guess
DSW - upper end discount shoes - again, okay (just read they are going heavily 'internet')
FAMOUS FOOTWEAR - the usual
IN 'N OUT - good place, good service, decent hamburgers
LINENS 'N THINGS - they are in reorganizational bankruptcy - Terry Parish says they are still coming here, but bankruptcy reorganization could still sqwelch that - I like the company, though, they just need to clean up their act
OLIVE GARDEN - it's decent and I'll probably go there once in a while when in the need for 'fast ok food'
PETCO - prefer Petsmart!
RED LOBSTER - never one of my favorites but a lot of people like it; can't argue with that
THE KEG - I hear it's fantastic but we'll see
TILLY'S - I'm a guy - it's an ordinary lower end 'mall' shop, isn't it
TJ MAXX - wife likes it - I hate it - simply closeouts, distressed merchandise, stuff that nobody else wants, etc.
ULTA - good for the fairer sex - should do well and be a decent addition
WAL-MART - ugh!
Here's my take on the "brilliantly amassed collection" of stores:
BEST BUY: I shop there once or twice a year and therefore don't need one in my backyard. I'll continue to go to Tucson for this so I don't give my sales tax dollars to Vestar.
CENTURY THEATRES: Hollywood no longer produces movies worth watching. They're all geared towards teenagers and 18-35 year old men. I haven't been to a movie theater in years and have no plans to visit this one either.
COST PLUS/WORLD MARKET: I disagree with Zev on this one. I actually think it's the only "unique" store that OVM will have. I shop at the one in Tucson. Unique "world" merchandise, gourmet foods, etc. But again, I will continue to drive to Tucson for this because I won't give Satan my money.
DANNY'S GOURMET MARKET: I heard we're getting the "market" and gas station but not the car wash. Not interested in either case.
DRESS BARN: Definitely ordinary. I do not shop there.
DSW and FAMOUS FOOTWEAR: Don't shop at either of these places. I insist on well-made, comfortable shoes that are actually designed for a human being's foot.
LINEN'S & THINGS: Another Anywhere USA store. My experience is that the kitchen items are good but the bath towels are poor quality.
OLIVE GARDEN: Ate there twice in Massachusetts. It was awful both times. I never went back.
TILLY'S: A store for teenagers which is what most malls cater to.
TJ MAXX: Went to one once. Every item of clothing I picked up was either ripped or stained. I never went back. This is just more junk.
ULTA: Nice store. Good selection. But again I'll continue to shop at the one in Tucson.
WAL-MART: If I'm ever in the market for poisoned dog treats, lead baby bibs, antifreeze flavored toothpaste, or clothing packed in formaldehyde, I'll be sure to make this my first stop!
In my opinion, the only unique store here is World Market and the only borderline upscale store would be Ulta.
Vestar must be using a different dictionary than the rest of us. Their definitions of unique, upscale, and brilliant don't match anything I've ever seen.
VC - loved your comments and our 'differences'. Did you hear that Danny's was coming here WITHOUT a car wash? That's their big thing in the Phoenix area; everyone I've been to there HAS a carwash and gas pumps. Are we going to be different? Type in your search 'Dannys Gourmet Market' - every one of those 'stores', and there are many, have a carwash. As a matter of fact the name of the corporation is DANNY'S FAMILY CAR WASH. Let me know.
Zev,
About 6 months ago when we learned that Danny's was coming here and there was a lot of talk about what kind of establishment it was, was it really a gourmet market, etc., a friend of mine called Danny's headquarters in Phoenix and inquired. She was told that we were getting the market and gas pumps but not the car wash because there wasn't enough space to include it.
Then we looked them up on the internet and saw that it was just a convenience store and not a gourmet market by any stretch.
Anyway, that's the last we knew about it, but that was 6 months ago.
Thanks VC - hopefully we will NOT get the 'wash part'. As I have been to 3 of them, 2 in Scottsdale, 1 in Phoenix (getting my car washed there), I did assume that they would be 'doing' a car wash thing here as that seemed to be the reason for being. Several times the lines poured out into the street. The market - gourmet? -that's a laugh, and their gas was higher priced then the competitors (but who cares about the price of gasoline). Anyhow, I suppose Sun City will give up on Conoco at Rancho Vistoso and Oracle, Saddlebrook will boycott Valero at the Bashas center and the mini-mart across the street from it, the 'downtowners' will give up on their no-sign allowed Valero at La Canada and Lambert, and hordes and hordes of people from Green Valley to Casa Grande will flock to the Oro Valley Marketplace just to be able to buy a gourmet candy bar at Danny's. Well, I guess we'll see how it all plays out (I am looking forward to 'hangin' out' with my
elder gang beneath a mesquite tree in a planter on Friday nights, however).
Again, VC, thanks for the info.
Please. You rich people and your desire for upscale boutiques. Get over it. I doubt OVM will go bust. They may have trouble getting tenants to stay but lots of you rich folk spend plenty of your pretty pennies there despite all your complaining about the shops designed for commoners.
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