In our January 20, 2008 Question Of The Week, we asked: "Do you think that Town Council members Parish, Dankwerth, Gillaspie, Kunisch and Loomis played politics when they did not elect KC Carter as Vice Chairman of the Council? Why?"
Most bloggers said yes: Electing Kunisch and not KC Carter as Vice Chairman of the council was a joke.
Petty politics in Oro Valley.
Click here to read a selection of your comments.
9 comments:
Let's get at least one thing straight. While it is customary to rotate the position of Vice Mayor (which is almost purely ceremonial), there's no requirement to do so. One of the responsibilities, though, of a Vice Mayor is to chair the Council meetings when the Mayor is unavailable. This requires a deep understanding of Robert's Rules or Order as well as the ability to follow the discussion and to summarize the points so that a motion can be brought forward. In the case of Oro Valley, neither Paula nor KC has demonstrated these skills. They have often made motions that are irrelevant to the issue at hand or which are completely contrary to the Town Code or state law. Frequently, KC doesn't even know what he's voting on, and Paula is prone to making motions which, if passed, would embroil the Town and the Council in expensive litigation. Does this make Kunisch the best choice for Vice Mayor? That's for others to decide, but I do know why the two favorites of this blog were passed over. The Vice Mayor's position is important enough that the incumbent has to be on the ball intellectually, has to follow the discussion assiduously, and should refrain from expressing his or her opinion until the other Council members have had their say.
How well does "Boobie-baby" know this Council? "Expensive litigation", you mean when they ALL approve developments that HURT the citizens and help developers?
Aren't you a bit judgemental assessing Paula and KC's skills? You think Kunisch is a brain trust? I can't wait to see him conduct the meeting!
Your assessment is a bit off the mark, my dear!
Expensive litigation when the Council follows the lead of a Paula Abbott who votes against a development despite the fact that all code requirements have been met, just because "she's not comfortable" or doesn't like the color of the curtains in the living rooms." (An exaggeration, of course, but you get the point). This was the subject of a very expensive case in the City of Tucson, one which the city lost. Is that how you want your tax dollars spent?
Paula and KC are nice, well-meaning people who, unfortunately, have not the slightest idea of how to run a formal government meeting. Does Kunisch? I dunno--do you? Let's see--he may never get the chance so long at the Mayor stays in good health!
Well, boobie-baby, you kind of don't know the new Vice-mayor, do you? Your statement is simply a misstatement of observation as well as fact.
Boobie-baby,
A person can learn Robert's rules.
All well and good to know the protocol.
But just because you know the rules inside and out and upside down, does
not mean you will represent the people who elected you or guarantee you will do the right thing.
I listen to the council meetings via the computer.
I cringe when Mayor Loomis speaks down to Paula Abbott. He is rude and condescening, not only to her but to others who dare disagre with him.
Paula Abbott is a very intelligent women, who in the past was verbally "dressed down" by other council members of the good ole boy club.
She has my respect and admiration especially for not backing down from those who tried to bully her.
I do recall Al Kunisch at a candidate forum telling us that he would be against a big box ordinance because it could keep out stores like Dillards, from leasing at the Oro Valley Marketplace
Maybe he is a nice man, but he certainly does not seem capable of independent thoughts or votes.
It's not just the learning of Robert's Rules (which are complex and not easily absorbed), but the fact is that a Vice Mayor has no more power or authority than anyone else on the Council. It's not a matter of representing or not representing individuals in the community--it's an honorary title that carries virtually no weight whatsoever. So, let's not make a big deal out of this. Ms. Abbott and Mr. Carter are kind people, as is Mr. Kunisch. Mr. Kunisch will rise or fall on his own volition as Vice Mayor, should he ever get the chance to preside at a public meeting.
And, Zev, yes I do know the Vice Mayor, but I don't know how he'll perform (of even IF he'll perform) in this meaningless role. Let's wait and see--if he's not successful, then the Council can appoint someone else.
boobie-baby----I already welcomed you as a blogger, so I'll forego the formalities here.
I stand by my initial posting that the vice mayor election by council was a "back-room" deal and a "slap in the face" to KC Carter.
As for Kunisch, he'll be vice mayor through the end of 2008, unless of course he does something so egregious that he's impeached or perhaps recalled prior to his term expiring.
Your opinion of KC & Paula is something that the majority of the voters don't subscribe to. I don't believe you can name even one other person who has sought re-election as a council member that was successful, other than KC & Paula.
Some recent "losers" include Dick Johnson, Bart Rochman & more recently, Conny Culver.
Oh, by the way, is the vice mayor position,"important enough that the incumbent has to be on the ball intellectually---," as you noted in your original comment, or is it "an honorary title that carries virtually no weight whatsoever," as you stated in your last comment?
Perhaps you meant to say that it's an important position that is meaningless!!!
BB - As Art asks, which is it, "The Vice Mayor's position is important enough that the incumbent has to be on the ball intellectually, has to follow the discussion assiduously, and should refrain from expressing his or her opinion until the other Council members have had their say." or "..it's an honorary title that carries virtually no weight whatsoever. So, let's not make a big deal out of this." These are your comments that seem to conflict. Can you clarify?
I also think both Paula Abbott and KC Carter are more than just nice people, they are intellegent people and more importantly, support those that put them in office more than the rest of the Council.
Ms. Coyote stated that she heard Al Kunisch state at a candidate forum that he is against big box ordinances because they would keep out stores like Dillard's.
Here's the problem with Kunisch's thinking on this issue:
Dillard's and stores of that type are NOT big box stores. They are department stores. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
So all the town had to do was to clearly define the difference between department store and big box store and then issue an ordinance against the big boxes only. Simple stuff.
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