I don't want to say the wrong thing here, as I believe the issue I will address is quite sensitive.
Yesterday, a new blogger, who chose to use the pseudonym "OVWEBSLEUTH," made a lengthy comment concerning Council Member Terry Parish.
Those of you that may have read what was said, would appreciate, as I did, that the comment based on PUBLIC RECORD information was not at all complimentary to Terry and indeed was quite hurtful.
As is our policy, bloggers can choose to comment using their name or a pseudonym of choice. I will state unequivocally, I do NOT know the identity of "ovwebsleuth."
Last evening Terry sent me a private email expressing his concern to ----not so much himself, but to his family, as to what was said.
Late in the evening, I responded to Terry's email explaining my dilemma as to whether or not I should delete the comment. (As blogmaster, I can delete, but NOT edit comments, so it was "all or nothing.") I wrote Terry that I felt the comments were not "a personal attack," but PUBLIC RECORD, and indicated as such, I would not infringe on the writer's Freedom of Speech----especially since, I recently saw fit to fight the town on that issue.
This morning, Terry responded to my email, and, once again, in a cordial manner, requested I remove the "hurtful comment."
As Terry has stated, he and I disagree on most every issue, but I respect him for taking positions and being honest about his beliefs. As a result of his attitude, I have reconsidered, and with apologies to "ovwebsleuth" and other readers who may not agree, I have taken ALL comments, as it pertains to Terry's personal life off of the blog.
I hope those who may be offended by my decision will understand I did this because I think it's the right thing to do.
Sincerely,
Art Segal
33 comments:
So then since everybody is "hurt" and trying to be considerate and play fair then how about Terry Parish apologizing to the Latas family.
Maybe they were hurt also by his comments.
If Terry would publicly apologize then I think this is a great compromise and is fair for all
If not, then Art I feel like you have let us all down, meaning not just all of us who participate and support your blog, but those who
printed your story and offered legal support.
I find it interesting that the blog decides to delete postings that are unflattering to a certain person, when that person is the one who has a history of trying to stifle our rights, be it indirectly or directly.
Divide and conquer, it works every time!!!
Sorry Art, I think you were snookerd, or ----punched.
good luck with the blog.
To All Blog Supporters and Readers…..
Wow…censorship IS alive and well!
The truth here is, Parish didn’t like the truth about his life (at least the public record part) being questioned and he first tried to bully it off the blog by requesting the assistance of OVOT, it didn’t work. He most likely put in a call to the OV County Attorney to see if he could prosecute to no avail, so now he switched up tactics to make Art feel sorry for him…sorry Art, I agree with MSCOYOTE, you got suckered!
I stand by my previous comments, for those of you that had a chance to read them. I would like to once again state that all that was said was and is PUBLIC INFORMATION. I urge all voters to do the research before casting your vote. You should research all public information on each and every candidate, for every election in which you are casting a vote. IT IS YOUR DUTY AS A CITIZEN TO KNOW YOUR CANDIDATE.
I would like to end this post with a statement in support of this blog…We all now know that Mr. Parish reads this blog, this is an awesome public forum to air your grievances (of course it would be better uncensored!). But our voice is heard by the very people we want to hear it. Don’t stop supporting Art or this blog, because he had to make a moral decision that he felt in his heart was the right thing to do, we owe it to ourselves and our community to maintain a voice!
To Mr. Parish…
I would hope that in the future, you will think twice before publicly criticizing other candidates and town council attendees and members. I hope that little ole’ OVWEBSLEUTH has taught you a lesson in piety and humility, Mr. Parish…you are not “above reproach“.
I also would like to request that you issue a FORMAL APPOLOGY to Mr. Latas, she didn’t deserve to be personally attacked. If you think calling someone a “Promoter of Pornography” is not damaging and personal, well then, as I have already assumed…. You are a moron…(a Monkey in a MENSA meeting comes to mind……sorry I borrowed that from a previous blog).
As far as protecting your family, unfortunately when we choose to take up public office our family is often “exploited” BY and FOR the benefit of the candidate, i.e. “I am So-n-So and I have been married for X number of years and I have X number of children, I stand for GOOD family values ….blah..blah..blah”. Mr. Parish, you yourself have used this line…So I would suggest to you, for the good and protection of you “family”, maybe you should withdrawal from this race.
To All Oro Valley Voters…On to the issues…..
We are living in a time of “Change” it has been the forum of candidates in the current presidential elections. Everyone is tired of the ‘status quo” in Washington, why would you settle for it in Oro Valley?
We have seen what Parish represents: A Wal-Mart (where wal-mart goes….crime follows!); A $173 million dollar park (what? Can‘t we use that money for schools and to benefit the children, invest in our future, I thought there was an animal habitat that we were trying to protect, what happened to it…did they all get tired of Parish‘s rhetoric and move to another town?); Acceptance of special interest money (who paid off his last campaign debt?); Voting to cut the fire dept down to just Golder Ranch (this has been great for the taxpayers and those of us that must know pay NW Fire for services); Censorship and violation of rights (Mrs. Patysk, allegedly Mr. Segal, This blog); Public bulling and humiliation (Mrs. Latas, opposing council members); Wasting tax dollars and Violating our 1st amendment rights (library filters)…..and the list goes on and on….
It is time for a change in Oro Valley….Do NOT re-elect Terry Parish…Do the right thing for your family and for Oro Valley!
Art,
Thank you for your understanding and your committment to following the rules that you laid out for your blog.
I want to reassure everyone and you can ask Salette I never called her any name including "promoter of pornography."
I reminded people of one of the ideological choices the voters have to make. She has reaffirmed her position on the 1st ammendment as it relates to pornography in the library several times in several different forums. This has nothing to do with her personally and never has.
It is an ideological positional difference such as : EDA / No EDA, Conservative/ Liberal
etc etc.
Thanks again Art and know I also believe that you are providing an important forum for people to air out the issues.
All these posts will most likely be deleted again. Can we bet?
Hey typical politican, talks their way into something with one voice and talks their way out with another one.
I really don't care how many times somebody has been married!
Well somebody must have some great line of xx, cause it worked like a charm and the owner of the bs got their way.
But I do care that Mr. Parish started the cheap shots against another candidate. But then when he could not take the heat, he worries about his family, but nobody else's family.
So think we will se a public apology from Mr. Parish to Ms Latas and her family?
Terry,
If you're reading this...
Regarding the statement you made about Salette promoting pornography, I was told that you said, "I fought to keep porn out of the library and Salette Latas fought to keep it in!"
Let's look at this another way.
Suppose it was Salette who had made the statement against you instead. Suppose she said...
"I fought to keep medical information available at the library and Terry Parish fought to keep it out!"
That wouldn't be a true representation of what you were fighting for, would it? Just as what you stated was not a true representation of what she was fighting for.
That's why you would score a lot of points if you would issue a public apology to Salette.
OV Websleuth,
I didn't see the post you submitted "exposing" Parish's personal life, but from what I'm hearing, it reminds me of what the Republicans did to Bill Clinton a few years back. I just rolled my eyes in disgust of it all because I saw no connection with how Clinton's sex life or personal life had ANYTHING to do with his ability to be President.
And I don't see now how Parish's personal life has anything to do with his ability to be a council member. The only way I would connect the two is if the personal life involves serious criminal activities.
Parish...Parish...Parish..Are you SERIOUS?
"She has reaffirmed her position on the 1st ammendment as it relates to pornography in the library several times in several different forums."
WRONG..she has reaffirmed her position that she is against FILTERS not PRO pornography. Wow! What double-talk!
MSCOYOTE... we, you, I, Ms. Latas will never...NEVER see a public apology from Mr. Parish. This is the only issue he has left to trash the other candidate...he cannot give up his ONLY forum. Why then we would have to look at the REAL issues(see my previous post).
While the number of marriages was not in question (oh..Here goes, I may be censored again...can feel the weight of the Iron Curtain crushing my typing fingers..oouch!)
It was only the circumstances surrounding it that I had issue with and then only because Parish was standing on his rightous podium looking down and laughing at all the little fools that believe his line of bs.
Victorian Cowgirl
Once again I appreciate the tone and thought you put into your e-mail.
When the library issue was before the council it was my suggestion and it did pass that we allow unfiltered access to the internet if it is requested.
As a result you have the ability to view the content you describe after you check it out from the librarian just like you would with any book.
FYI Emil Franzi wrote an editorial about this as well.
Allow me to reaffirm what I tried to say in this original posting, and add additional comments.
First off, I'll reiterate, I do NOT know the identity of 'ovwebsleuth," but obviously, this person has a lot of of concern for the community, and also quite obviously, spent a lot of time and effort in researching the points that he/she raised here.
I truly apologize to you for "censoring" your comments, but, after analyzing the pros and cons, I felt I did the right thing.
For those readers who may be "in the dark," as to what is going on, I also apologize, in that the comments made are no longer posted for you (the readers) to make your own determination.
I commended Terry for the demeanor he used in his request to me, and not for a moment did I believe that he spoke to anyone---certainly not an attorney, on this subject, other than my belief that he and his good friend "OVOT" discussed this issue.
Rather than divulge anything in his and my email communications, suffice it to say, I still support only Bill Garner & Salette Latas for Town Council, and echo "ovwebsleuth's" advice to Terry as posted here.
Perhaps we can now take the advice of my good friend, "The Zee Man" and get back to the important issues:Taxes, water,annexation and most important; who is worthy of your vote in our fast approaching election.
Thank you all for your comments.
Art
I, on the other hand, commend you, Art, for deleting the comments as written by OVWEBSLEUTH. As all of you who follow this blog site know,I have been a very harsh critic of Mr. Parish relative to his grasp of the issues as well as his sometimes outlandish demeanor on the Town Council; I maintain that he is not suitable for a
position on it. I do understand and can attribute the outpouring by the writer OVWEBSLEUTH as a reaction to some of the vicious and anal commentary that has appeared on this site as of late as well as the ugly comment Mr. Parish communicated relative to candidate Salette Latas, a remark that was inexcusable and which I strongly believe, after having spoken with several persons who were in the immediate vicinity at that time was, in fact, made.
However, Mr. Parish's personal life is just that - personal - and while I might be able to assess as contradiction his public persona vs. his personal life, there are other factors that could come into play, one of them the possibility that there might be one or more innnocents that could be affected by vindictively perpetuating a revelation of this nature.
Our nation is under siege right now and much of that is a result of a government laden with tit-for-tat dirty politics. Must we, as a people with dreams for an improved community follow suit? Let's help set an example!
Zev, I see your point also. Problem is that this "censure" may discourage others from posting. I don't know.
Either way, my opinion is that the post should have been kept, part of a free society is also seeing the whole picture, both sides, let the readers make up their own mind. That is the whole purpose of a blog. Politics is a ------ 's game and blog sites are probably just as rough.
Yes I know it is best to not stoop to the other guys level, but sometimes that does not win in the world of politics.
From what I have seen and read you are a person of the highest standards and a gentleman!!! I mean that. Unfortunately when a person gets in the political fight ring, they need to know how to fight. And some, no name mentioned fight dirty, so its tit for tat. I still respect your view and see your point. I am just one realistic coyote.
Well, well, well - I went to my computer to write a comment after the first 2 written by mscoyote; lo and behold, when I went to post it I found I was 8 more postings behind - thought I'd present it anyway. Where have you been hiding
WEBSLEUTH? You most certainly have added another voice of reason (as well as flair) to this blog site and that's a good thing! Will look forward to more.
Art,
I believe you did the right thing. I read the post in question yesterday and felt a personal attack on another individual has no place here.
It is important that this blog remains and gains wide acceptance for informing people in this town on what issues we face in coming years and the best ways to tackle them - come up with solutions.
OVwebsleuth,while we all want to keep our freedom of speech alive and well - and unfortunately in this day and age - it's tough to do. A use of a blog to personally tear someone apart doesn't do any of us any good. Art fought hard for his blog and freedom of speech and to allow us to have a place to voice our need for change in town government - don't push other bloggers away or turnoff those who come here to read - your personal vendetta doesn't do any of us any good.
raindancer
Terry Parish is running as a "law and order" and "family values" candidate. What he is being accused of, which he doesn't deny, is a class 3 misdemeanor in Arizona, and is an affront to anyone who values the family as the core of society.
Ladies and Gentlemen....
Let us not lose sight of the fact that candidates are people too. And as such they have feelings, families and lives to live. There is nothing more valuable than human respect.
The postings of OVWEBSLEUTH were not intended to make a political point. They were posted to harm Mr. Parish personally. While I may take shots at some folks I do it only in the context of this blog and in some instances I may take a shot at someone that I know personally in a humerous way.
OVWEBSLEUTH comments were meant to inflict personal harm and embarassment.
WE DON'T NEED THIS HERE!! LET'S DISCUSS THE ISSUES FACING ORO VALLEY VOTERS AND NOT THE CANDIDATES PERSONAL LIVES.
THANK YOU ART!!! I commend your decision.
OVWEBSLEUTH....
You need to know, as do others, that I have not communicated in any way with Mr. Parish since my postings about the OV Republican Women's forum.
So not only are your comments a bunch of CRAP but they are factually incorrect ("by requesting the assistance of OVOT") as well.
MR PARISH HAS MADE NO REQUESTS OF ME!!!
Greetings All,
LOVE is about making positive change happen in Oro Valley. We focus on that to the exclusion of all else.
Let Mr. Parish run on his record; not on his personal situation.
LOVE's policy is clear: We will not allow personal attacks. And, we consider what happens in someone's personal life to be "out of bounds" even when it is public record.
We have deleted comments in the past based on this policy. We do not consider it "censoring". We consider it the right thing to do.
That said, lets get on with the work at hand!
Art and the Zeeman.
Well you two guys keep saying you want this council race to be about the candidate's records!!
Put your money where your mouth is.
HELLO
I have asked several times that this blog do some type of summary of the voting record of the incumbents .
But Nooooooooooo, I don't even get the courtesy of a response.
Maybe I should email you two and tell you my feelings are hurt!!!
Thinker, who made you the blog boss?
Don't lecture the rest of us.
Your guy apparently did not respect the fact that another candidate also is a person and has feelings and a family.
And go ahead and delete me .
But it is your blog, so you have the freedom to "censure" what is posted .
There is no real freedom of speech.
Thank you ORO VALLEY MOM. You have made my point clear and precise! (Using much fewer words as well!)
A persons actions, whether personal or political does speak to their character. Would we knowingly elect a dead-beat dad, an alcoholic, a street-bum, a bigot..etc? I don't think we would. And wouldn't you want to know about it BEFORE you cast your vote?
Whether anyone would like to admit it, we all judge others with criteria that is less important than the way candidates conduct their private lives, ie: hairstyle, skin color, clothing, income, housing, wealth etc. None of which are fair evaluation criteria for a candidate. But when you are speaking in regards to honesty and integrity... then we will have to take into account such things as personal behavior.
OVOT...I don't need a speach on what is okay and not okay on this blog. Or how many times you did or didn't talk to Parish..I don't really care. "I didn't (do)(say)_____!" Seems to be a mantra for Parish and any of his supporters.
ZEE MAN.. Sorry for hiding so long, it took the "free speach" article to inspire me to start blogging!
MSCOYOTE..Thank you for voicing all of your concerns, you are right on the money! You believe as I believe; We have the right to know and speak freely and let the reader (voter) decide.
WEBSLEUTH
You made a statement: "Sorry about hiding so long......and adressed that to ZEE MAN. Just for the record, as I was the one who asked "Where have you been hiding",
I am not ZEE MAN. Thought I would
clear that up as others have confused me with him in the past.
ZEV
Commendations from OV OT and TerryParish are "the kiss of death" in my opinion.
OVOT
You need to review many of your own comments and, relative to a statement in one of your postings here, start practicing what you preach. There are times when you seemingly get started on an acceptable track but then you blow it by being unable to resist taking a sarcastic potshot at someone or some thing. Those shots tend to blow any credibility you might have. You need to 'up' your own delivery before you ask others to do so. Generally speaking, candidates are usually fair game for scrutiny and criticism, even
though it might be presented in a somewhat negatively passionate manner. Our fellow writers here are simply commentators, albeit sometimes expressing outrage, anger, praise, understanding, or whatever; they don't need to be denigrated. If you continue the path of cynical proclamations (towards us), there is no doubt that you are going to get some reactionary responses.
I have read the post in question concerning Councilman Parish. The post confirms suspicions that have been circulating about him for quite some time. From the post it appears that OVWEBSLEUTH has done the research to support the statements made. They are backed by public record that is open for all to review. It is interesting that the comments have not been challenged.
Art must be commended on the removal of the post in consideration of possible negative impact to be families involved. It shows sensitivity and concern for all involved.
Considerations should however come from both sides and that does not appear to be happening. I’m sure Salette Latas would like an explanation of his comments on the web filters. I’m sure many of Oro Valley’s residents don’t appreciate being called “CAVE People”. How do you explain the love of developers? How do you explain being Vestar’s poster boy while voting on related issues? The list goes on.
Art has shown sensitive consideration in removing the post from OVWEBSLEUTH. It is time for Councilman Parish to do the same.
Sorry ZEV CYWAN, My mistake... I did mean that for you.
I would like to say that I respect Art's decision to remove my post, although I do not agree with it.
I only respect it because there MAY be inocents caught in the middle.
Unfortunately when we conduct our lives below the board....inocent people are usually the ones left holding the bag..all of which could be prevented by conducting our lives in a manner of that which makes us proud...especially when we are public figures.
I wish no harm on any candidate's family.
If this guy thinks that computer filters are a good idea and effective, then try using them to block this web site.
I have no real idea about the effectiveness of the web filters .
The experts claim they don't really work that well.
Don't think that the filters are the answer to keeping perv's from looking at porn in the public library.
Personnaly, I am more concerned that these perverts are in the library in the first place.
How many people are going to view porn at the library? Of course I am against that, but on the rare occasion that it happens, the library staff has to be alert and take fast action.
Last week on the news the topic of privacy and the mv office computers in Green Valley was discussed.
A reader was worried due to Arizona having the highest rate of identity theft.
So the MV office is now going to try and make the computer screen view more restricted.
Maybe there could be some adult area in the library. No, not to have people look at porn. Just an idea.
Plus no children should be left unsupervised at the library or anywhere else .
Yes, WEBSLEUTH, you are in essense
quite correct; unfortunately, in the past few decades or so, 'below the board' standards have been so lowered that they have been rendered almost meaningless. Look at our politicians on the federal level - few ethics, scant morality there. Look at the teachings within our schools, from middle on up - 'it's all okay'. I could go on but I think you get what I'm saying - power, greed, and the lack of moral standing seem to be
the order of the day - I hope that our communities, our country, our world can right themselves someday;
'till then, well...........
It was originally insulting to be called a CAVE person so I just changed the meaning of the acronym. Now I'm proud to be a CAVE person. I'm a Citizen Against Vestar's Exaggerations!
OVOT - you must stop claiming that everything you say is fact and everything the rest of us say is pure conjecture. We have shown you many times on many different blogs that many of your facts are fiction.
I would like to pose a question to ALL the candidates (or anyone that is willing to answer in this forum), excuse me if this has been addressed previously and I missed it.
QUESTION: Has there been a study regarding pornography in the libraries? I mean, did anyone take the time, BEFORE making this an issue to research the web pages visited by people using the library?
As developers are required to make 'environmental impact studies' before developing land.....did someone complete a study to find out if accessing porn through library computers is even an issue?
I would wager to say, most people wanting to view porn, would like to do so in the privacy of their own homes. I suggest we do a study, we might find that the use of filters is not only unnecessary it is simply ludicrous!
ovwebsleuth
In answer to your question about research yes! The news media did some undercover research and made quite a spash with the images of men viewing all types of porn with kids walking by. They did not do this research in the OV library.
However coincidentally OV had received citizens complaints and actually had a man viewing porn and masturbating in the general use area of the library. That is when the council began to struggle with the issue as were most area jurisdictions.
We chose to follow the ruling of the United States Supreme Court (United States vs The American Library Association)
and filter the internet automatically while allowing unfiltered access to be checked out like you would any book. This prevented us from having our librarians spy on people using the computers and essentially becoming the internet police.
Characteristic of good politicians is to disagree without being disagreeable.
In public town meetings our elected official Terry Parish publically rolls his eyes, slams his newspaper on the dais, sucks his teeth when fellow council members voice their views, throws his head back in dismay, pounds his forehead with his left hand, impatiently waiting for them to finish, verbally attacks constituents who raise issues he does not like, sits, steaming visibly redfaced and inflated like a rattler ready to strike. I ask you is that the kind of politician you want TO PAY to represent you? We are not talking about his personal life here. This is how he performs IN FRONT OF COUNCIL AND CONSTITUENTS while at a town meeting!
What is even more inditing is that he shows these behaviors when Paula Abbott, his peer, and female constituents speak. The only woman he has ever defended is Sarah More, Zoning Director. This raises the question of why he would protect her. Isn't he the councilman who candidly acknowledged that he accepts contributions from developers and SM,the Zoning Director? Wonder what that connection is all about????
Ask yourself how he rates on being able to disagree without being disagreeable. Or better yet, if you have never attended a council meeting, please attend and rate his level of professionalism yourself before you vote.
Native Spirit
NATIVE SPIRIT
You are so correct.
Like I previously stated in my "censered" post;
"You (Parish) are like the bully on the playground… pushing kids around, stealing their lunch money and calling them names all because you live under the guise of ego and power… while deep down, you are really just an insecure, fat, little kid that achieves self-esteem by bullying and picking on other children"
Post a Comment