The Oro Valley Town Council general election ends on May 20th. I say ends because it is a vote by mail process and ballots have already been received. The two remaining candidates, Barry Gillaspie and Terry Terry Parish are both incumbents.
On Friday evening Barry Gillaspie held a very successful campaign forum at the Oro Valley Library. There were so many council members there that several people mentioned to leave the doors wide open in order to avoid any trouble with the state open meeting law. Barry will hold another forum this Saturday at 2:00 pm, also at the Oro Valley Library.
If you would like to help out Terry Parish, his campaign will be walking this Saturday. They will meet at the Oro Valley Town Hall at 8:30 am and the walk begins at 9:00 am sharp
Conservatives have been struggling with this election. Gillaspie is a fiscally responsible, environmentally conscious Democrat and Parish in a free spending, developer friendly Republican. The turnout may be even lighter than the low showing during the primary. We are not making a formal endorsement. The locally run Let Oro Valley Excel blog has not formally endorsed either but seems more open to Gillaspie. The Northern Pima Chamber of Commerce has endorsed Parish. The Explorer Newspaper has a question and answer story posted on their site.
37 comments:
Great Picture!!
How often does a group picture come out this nice?
Recall when we were kids how somebody always looked goofy in the picture.
Of course not me : ).
Upcoming in Oro Valley are issues that will greatly affect land use.
It is of extreme importance that those on council have unsullied bent to those inevitable questions that will have to be addressed. MR. GILLASPIE has the extensive, in-depth background in the many facets of community and applications that would qualify him best to view those important issues from a knowledgable and wide perspective. On the other hand, MR. PARISH, while he seems to be an Oro Valley 'patriot', does not have the equivalent analytical skills that will be most necessary to sort out the upcoming complexities and, in addition, he will no doubt be dogged by those special interests that have given large and questionable contributions to his campaign(s).
TRUST is a factor and, those who
would accept SPECIAL INTEREST donations to the magnitude that
Mr. Parish has done, CANNOT BE TRUSTED to bear an unsullied interest in the community relative to the manner it expects.
Zev
All of my contributors did so legally and in an unquestionable fashion. Any person who contributes to a campaign is a special interest.
Remember, neither of us recieve one dollar personally. Our campaigns get the money and we never get to spend it on ourselves.
We are rewarded for our efforts with $9200.00 in compensation per year from the Town not the special interest we often refer to.
There is no motivation to sell ones vote for a campaign contribution.
I appreciate the "patriot" comment as I love my home, our town and all it represents. I think this is clear as I am unafraid to address the issues even on a blog that has not been rife with Terry Parish supporters. When was Barry's last post???
It seems I spend alot of time conversing with his special interest groups. That is because I believe in our system of governemnt. I thinks all sides should be represented and respected regardless of the money involved. Ask around I have always been willing to meet, discuss, and learn from anyone who wanted to take the time.
I have made many a developer angry by voting against their project and demanding more from them. The last time this happened it was to protect Barry's neighborhood. I found it reassuring when after all was said and done his wife thanked me and took the time to tell the council she was satisfied with the final plan.
Incidentally the Gillaspies aren't contributors to my campaign and neither are their neighbors. I doo what I think is the right thing based on all the info I have available. I stand up for my beliefs and am concious of the fact that I represent all of Oro Valley not just those who choose to support my campaign.
Terry
Terry
Great pic; thank you for leaving out "Big Al" :) and Hizzoner.
Terry,
A hypothetical question for you?
You say that the developers don't expect any favoritism from you. Then why do you think they contribute so much money to your election?
Everybody that votes or contributes time, effort or money to a candidate may expect something in turn. But there is a big difference in what I expect as a private citizen vs what
somebody who makes their living from develoment expects in turn for a contribution.
Have you ever thought about running for office without taking money or help from those connected to the developoment industry?
If not, why not?
Terry, I still don't think you get it in regards to the perception of campaign contributions. While they might have been legally disbursed,(please note in a previous post that I wrote that a loaf of bread sliced into 25 pieces is still a loaf of bread) the granting of a
cluster of donations still APPEARS as a 'favor' gratuity. Legality and ethics are two different entities. Unfortunately we live in a time when our politicians on all sides are so immersed in getting re-elected, pork barrel spending, favoritism, etc., that our major as well as minor corporations are so caught up in greed and 'success at any cost mentalities, that ordinary people cannot help but be suspect towards any inkling of wrongdoing even at a local level.
I will not dispute that, on occasion you have situated yourself against a particular developer or an aspect of development, but can you truly claim that by virtue of the support given you by some developer, that you have never been tilted by that support? Can you truly believe that from the developers'side, they might EXPECT you to perform.
Because of so many 'kicks' that many of the townspeople have sustained, PERCEPTION reigns. We can't blame you, Terry, for the general ills that do infect our community, and you are not being
'discounted' by many simply because of the campaign
contributions situation; there are other things, too, and a lot of that is (or has been) attitude and a seeming lack of cohesiveness.
I, for one, find you pleasant but NAIVE; I find Barry pleasant and AWARE; and THAT does make a difference.
Sincerely,
Zev
This may be a case where "no comment" from me might be more prudent, but in the interest of fairness, I want to say the following.
Neither Terry or Barry asked for my support or endorsement. The difference, however is this. Terry asked to meet with me, and we did. Although he knows I do not support his candidacy, we had a number of cordial conversations.
Zev and others have used the word "perception" when it comes to Terry. I've told him the same thing. It is not what he says or does, but how others perceive what he says and does; and the perception is that Terry is much too much "developer friendly."
As for Barry--- Terry's point as to,"when was Barry's last post?" is well taken. Barry has seen fit to not comment here. Whereas Terry initiated a request for us to meet, I tried to do the same with Barry, but,for whatever reason, Barry has opted to not accept my offer.
I give Terry credit for standing up and letting us know what he stands for. Too bad, I can't say the same about Barry.
So----as The Sonoran Alliance's Josey points out, "Let Oro Valley Excel blog has not formally endorsed either but seems more open to Gillaspie," is a valid observation.
It will be up to the voters to determine which of the two incumbents will better serve the interests of the people of Oro Valley.
Thankfully, the new council will have Paula, KC, Bill & Salette who we expect will do just that.
Coyote,
Great question. I ask my contributors one question. What do you want from me. If they say I want to be heard, or I want to be treated fairly my campaign can accept their money and I can sleep at night.
I think my support from the business community is based on fear. Fear that they won't be heard. They know I will vote my conscience, I always have. they know I will fight for my beliefs, always have. Sometimes that is good for them sometimes it is bad but I listen to them and anyone else that wants to inform and educate me.
Ask Bednar, Beztec and NCH if my vote is for sale it's not and never will be. My family lives here, I live here and I want to make our lives better. not worse so I can be re-elected. If that was my goal what is the point?
Terry
Terry, finally you have given somewhat of a plausable and
PERHAPS reasonable view of your perception of receiving the campaign donations in question. However, when the pressure is on, I doubt that the donors would necessarily agree. Vestar, Visto Partners, et al, have reputations
relative to the arm twisting they apply, the contempt that they have for public expression, and the other means they utilize in order to 'beat' our community into submission; are you immune? I myself might be asked to be heard; I myself have fears that I wont be, I myself want to be treated fairly - but does this mean that I
must 'pay' for it? If so, then the Town, in fact, sould be considered
corrupt. If you have a philosophy, Terry, you don't need to taint it with questionable donations. If you are what you say, and can be what you say you are, then you really don't need to be 'paid' for it.
Oh, and one last thing, Terry, and PLEASE do not take this other than in the quasi-humorous way it is intended:
'Those who are paid to 'get' the ear of legislators are called LOBBYISTS; those legislators who are paid directly for their 'ears' are called crooks'.
Just a light hearted way for me to end my part on this subject; for, me,Terry, there shall be no more commentary from me relative to this subject.
Terry,
You said, regarding developer contributions, that no matter how much they contribute, your vote is not for sale. Why then have you never made even one critical comment about Vestar?
They pulled a bait and switch...you said nothing. They frequently begin working before the legal start time of 6 AM, starting as early as 4 AM, disturbing the peace in the surrounding residential neighborhood...you said nothing.
Fear the Turtle has asked you a few times something to the effect of...how can you have an anti-crime platform and then remain silent about Wal-Mart being open 24/7 right next to a residential neighborhood?
Who is out and about at 3 AM? Criminals, gangs, drug users, trouble-makers, the chronically unemployed, etc. Would you want these people congregating in YOUR backyard? Why are we even setting up a situation where these types will be drawn to congregate in Oro Valley at all at ANY time of day?
Why haven't you even spoken up to Vestar about this one aspect of their plan? Or why haven't you stated something publicly about your disappointment with this? Why the silence?
Art and others have used the word "perception" to describe how people interpret these things. They are correct. In this regard, the perception is that you are silent because you feel that you must remain loyal to Vestar no matter what.
The Wal*Mart that will be open 24/7 at Oro Valley Marketplace is only a couple of hundred yards away from houses that are in a subdivision that has no street lights. In fact the parking lot will bring our midnight "shoppers" even closer.
Maybe Wal*Mart will offer residents of these communities discounts on guns.
Cowgirl & Turtle
First of all I am a proponent of the second ammendment. I believe in our constitution. If people can buy guns legally at a discount great! I'll stand in line with them, and my tax dollars will save you money.
Cowgirl, I have publically stated that Wal-mart was not my first choice for over a year. If you weren't present or did not hear me, now it is written down.
The fact is I am the only councilmember that made any attempt to find a more desireable anchor. I went to the meetings, I tried to get COSCO and a couple of others. They didn't want Oro Valley.
That's indicative of what the market will bear. VESTAR was open to other anchors including Target but that would have caused the cannibalization of an existing store. They promised not to do that and they kept their promise.
I'm sorry you don't like Wal-mart, they have no interest in shortening their hours and if crime happens late at night when your at home then you certainly know your not in Tucson. Fact is most crime happens in the daytime when it's harder for the police to figure out the good guys from the bad.
If you think Wal-mart is our most pressing issue I would invite you to educate yourselves on the issues facing this town. Wal-mart pales in comparison.
This town needs a strong voice. Barry is my friend but he is not a decisive one , nor is he particularily vocal. I believe Oro Valley needs someone who is. Maybe I'm wrong, it's been known to happen but if I'm not your going to need a strong and yes sometimes strident voice protecting you.
I have done much behind the scenes to try to make The Marketplace better. I am the only one everyone else remained silent when it counted. They voted almost in lock step with my votes then pandered to you and complained about developers. Look at the record.
Who do you think pushed and had a position to work with VESTAR to make The Marketplace a leader in green building??? I'll give you seven guesses, and yes it's costing them alot of money they don't have to spend.
Terry
Terry,
You say that Vestar was open to other anchors? Can you name some other anchors that Vestar considered. I believe that Vestar went with Wal-mart because it was the fastest way for Vestar to get their 23.2 million.
No No No, Vestar did not keep their word Terry, Vetar lied and we all know it.
Vestar promised the voters in Oro Valley one thing and then delivered another.
In street language, Vestar talks a bunch of s t. Sorry if that offends anybody, but it is what it is and it ain't pretty.
Wal-Mart will not be a big problem for me as I won't give them any of my money.
My gripe or complaint is the whole EDA deal with Vestar again not keeping their end of the bargain.
You also seemed to think that the 250,00 that Wal Mart "donated" to OV for the park was wonderful
I don't think so. As far as I am concerned it is dirty money from a scummy company.
Ya know Terry there is no free lunch.
If you are the only one "protecting" us against Vestar than why is it they only contribute to your campaign?
Without a doubt there are more serious issues facing this town than another Wal*Mart, but what is important to most people is simply being upfront with them with no hidden agendas.
OK, so we have a Vestar power center, anchored by a Wal-mart, a Best Buy and movie theater, et al that are going to be in place shortly, built on what was/is a floodplain, utilizing thousands of tons of imported dirt in order to 'equalize' that fact, and one that will allow for the all night/late night utilizaion of light pollution and between the theaters and an all-night Wal-Mart will also allow for an increase in crime. We're not talking daytime
incidences which can be observed easily, we're talking nighttime muggings, late night theater happenings, etc. Terry, your assertion that crimes are a daytime thing just doesn't wash; maybe that's what you are used to,
but my own observances, having seen it with my own eyes, tell me differently. But, I guess we'll see. Audience, it won't be Wal-Mart that will bear the sole responsibility - the theater
most probably will be as much a drawing card as any other business in this complex for the influx of 'disagreeable' happenings.
Aside from the Wal-Mart issue, why wasn't the country 'scoured' for a retail developer who might have wanted to come here and who might have been able to provide a more
pedestrian friendly, village type
atmosphere? I have seen some incredible applications of retail development in many parts of the country, and not just created for the 'upper crust'. This center will be just another example of retail sprawl.
Why was it that a retail development had to be placed at this spot at all? No one can tell me that retail HAD to be there because of zoning stipulations, because, as I have recently learned, PAD development seemingly allows for a 'fluid' application of zoning assignments.
Terry, in previous statements, several commentaries (including mine) have pointed out to you what PERCEPTION is. From statements you made in newspaper articles, letters to the editors, council meetings, from words to body language, it is YOU who has asked for this scrutiny with an outcome deserved or not. In a past post you stated that [there were a lot of lies about you being bandied about] but that you [didn't have the time to go through and perhaps refute them]; not having the time, Terry, indicates your belief that LOTS of 'lies' are/were out there; you should have addressed them! The old saying 'if it looks like...walks like...quacks like...', well, I think you know the answer to that one.
While one person cannot be 'blamed'
for the Vestar fiasco, your participitory arrangements, even if they were before, during, or after the fact do become issues unto themselves.
Terry,
Thanks for your very informative answer to my first post. I do disagree though about most crime happening during the day. I suspect that with a 24-hour Wal-Mart and a movie theater, that we will see an increase in crime in that area after 10 PM. Unfortunately, we will have to wait and see.
However, you didn't address the issue of Vestar violating the legal start time. Have you ever spoken with Malin about this? Have you addressed it with the town staff? Have you addressed it with the residents in Catalina Shadows?
For that matter, has ANYONE on the town council done anything about this problem?
Terry and any other Council Member who might be reading this:
Are you aware of what happened in Stockton, CA when Vestar tried to open a 24-hour Wal-Mart there?
Vestar was developing a mall called Weston Ranch. They wanted to anchor it with Wal-Mart. The town council said they would block the Wal-Mart by passing a big-box ordinance. Vestar threatened that they would not build the mall without the Wal-Mart and they would pull out of Stockton.
The council called Vestar's bluff and passed the ban on big box stores.
Two months later, Vestar was back at city hall renegotiating the deal. But Vestar originally said they "would not move forward" with the mall if Wal-Mart was not allowed. Then suddenly there was room for negotiations with the town!
Vestar is all about posturing, bluffing, bullying, etc. but when a town has the guts to stand up to them, well, Vestar then shows up with their tail between their legs.
Oro Valley could have done the same thing.
How many of us remember the statement by David Malin that the big retailers who might have been considered just won't come to an outdoor shopping mall.
When, it was just another example of more BS from Malin. All one need do is drive up to Casa Grande on I-10 and look to your right. Two anchors at the new Promenade at Casa Grande are Dillard's & JC Penney.
Some may not think these two are "high class," but compared to Wal-Mart, they would have been a vast improvement.
But, no! Malin knew he was sticking us with a Wal-Mart and too many of us bought into his BS.
Most now know we were lied to, but Mr. Parish is not in that group.
Being Vestar's "spokesperson" is enough reason to NOT vote for Terry Parish!
Victorian Cowgirl, Art, and everybody:
Having been in retail for most of my working years, I can attest to the fact that, if there is a vision of profit in any given location, a business will locate there and most will adjust their own 'in concrete' stipulations in favor of an harmonious blending with the existing ordinances as well as architectural demands.
Locating in any given area is an INVITATION to do business; one doesn't have the RIGHT to be there. Now, given that, a Town does have the right to limit hours of operation, it has the right to demand signage conformity, it has the right to require certain landscaping, etc. The Center itself (within the Town regulations) has the right to make certain demands as to hours of operation, sign type and color, etc. By caving into the wimpering of the developers and/or the potential businesses we only fool ourselves. When the chips are there, they will play. Viable businesses go nowhere with out
in-depth demographic studies and they don't 'shy' away when those studies are most favorable.
In negotiations, those who show weakness are devoured, those who show strength win the match.
Cowgirl
Yes we addressed the start time issue and instructed staff to be on-sight to enforce it. Malin took the extra step of notifying the contractors that they would not tolerate violations.
I didn't even know there was a Stockton Ca.
Some help for Terry Parish.(I'll bet Barry Gillaspie knows there is a Stockton Ca.)
Stockton, California is currently the 12th largest city in California with a dynamic, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural population of over 260,000. Stockton is located 60 miles east of the San Francisco Bay Area, 83 miles (130 km) east of San Francisco, and 45 miles (72 km) south of Sacramento, the capital of California.
Art
Wickipedia Segal catchy don't you think??
oops
Wickipedia isn't as kind. Highest crime rate listed in Forbes magazine. You weren't referring to the multicultralism of crime were you.
Sounds to me like kicking Wal-mart didn't save the town anything. Except maybe a few homeowners. Highest foreclosure rate in the region too. Scary place never been there. Bet those former homeowners wish they had a job somewhere.
Seriously though. This is why you can't just pull a place off the map and look to it as an example of what we want to be.
I don't want what that town has to offer, except maybe some of the water from the rivers tat flow through the delta. If its clean I could go for that. By the way it's 80 miles east of SF.
Terry
Ps Glad you mentioned the Capital thought maybe Ca didn't have one!!
I needs do get me some learnin.
Have a great weekend Don't furget to smile :)
Hey you guys. Lots of states have cities or towns named Stockton.
Richard Stockton was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
So there ya go : )
Forgot to add this.
www.city-data.com
profiles of thousands of towns and cities in the USA.
So I am not your average coyote. hehe
Terry,
My point about Stockton was that they stood up to Vestar's threats and Vestar backed down.
Regarding the early start times, you said, "Yes we addressed the start time issue and instructed staff to be on-sight to enforce it."
Then why wasn't it enforced a few weeks ago when they were at it again, starting work at 4 AM?
You also said, "Malin took the extra step of notifying the contractors that they would not tolerate violations." Do you know WHEN he did that?
I ask because I have a copy of a letter from Town Atty. Tobin Sidles dated November 1, 2007 addressed to Marc Grayson of Vestar informing him that Vestar was in violation of the 6 AM start time ordinance "on two occasions" and that Vestar was being served notice that the Town would enforce any future violations of "nighttime construction activities."
I also have a copy of the response from Marc Grayson to Tobin Sidles stating, "we will immediately enforce this with our contractors."
That was in November 2007, but as Fear the Turtle stated in a recent posting, Vestar was at it again recently, starting at 5 AM and 4 AM day after day after day.
So where is this town staff that is supposed to be on site to enforce this ordinance? And what is Malin doing about this recent situation? And has the town enforced this as promised? Has Vestar been fined for these repeated violations?
Cowgirl,
Look on the left hand side of this web site under Upcoming events.
This issue of the noise ordinance was discussed a while ago and was posponed if I recall for clarification on some legal or enforcement issues. I don't really recall all the details.
So I assume the existing ordinance is still in effect and that gave the police dept authority to give permission for early construction.
Hope somebody knows the exact details, I could be wrong.
Cowgirl
Coyote is Wiley and she happens to be right. Meaning correct, I have no idea as to her politics.
Any way we addressed this 2 meetings ago as did Mr. Malin. I have not been made aware of any problems or violations since that time.
By the way there is no other council member I am the last of the candidates that will actually engage this blog and its bloggers in conversation. I don't know why it's me. I know most of this site's bloggers not only despise me but will not vote for me. Regardless of those facts I do listen to all of you and consider what you have to say.
Coyote
I almost forgot to tell you. I love your smile.
:)
Terry--- Speaking for myself---and probably many others, I do not despise you. As I noted any number of times, I give you credit for standing up for your convictions, and accepting, what may be perceived as scorn from many constituents.
The point is this. Most of the informed citizens do NOT agree with the majority of the positions you take on issues of concern. Surely, you can realize that the primary vote was a very emphatic statement.
I truly expect that Barry will prevail in the ongoing election which will be an additional statement by the people.
Perhaps then, you will see the light---although it will be too late for you.
Terry,
I don't despise you. And I don't always disagree with you. Once in a while I actually agree with you .
In the event you get elected again, please try to remember that you represent not just yourself, you should be up there for us, yes even those on here who are angry at you.
You are not on the council to advance the goals of developers. If you really feel that the developers contribute to your election effort so they have a voice, then get a job with the developers.
For whatever reason you decided that you wanted to be publicly associated with Vestar. Now if you had looked at both sides and maybe paid attention to what some of us have been preaching and screaming about, you most likely would have had support from the voters.
You took a chance and looks like it backfired. Why? Because Vestar
reneged.
I am mad as hell that this council, elected by the people is not putting Vestar's feet to the fire.
That is your job, and the job of the rest of the council.
Terry,
I don't despise you. I think you know that. I've defended you many times on this site. I despise Vestar and your relationship with them.
I'm glad you speak up on this site and answer our questions. I'm even glad that Thinker, whom I usually disagree with, also contributes to this site. I'm open-minded and like to hear from the "other side."
Besides, if this site were all one-sided, then we'd all just be preaching to the choir and what good is that?
Everybody
Thanks for your comments and Art specifically regarding your statement about being too late for me.
It's not about me. I I lose the race I haven't lost anything but about .17 cents an hour. I can make much more like I used to working overtime or off duty.
However, I am invested in this community and like working to make it better. If the citizens don't agree that I'm doing that I won't be re-elected and there are many venues left for me to spend my time.
This job hurts me financially always has that's one of the reasons I take so much offense when people say I'm bought and paid for. How wrong they are but if they can twist the truth some will in an effort to create a perception that isn't true.
Either way what God has planned for me will determine what happens to me. If that is something else I just hope it allows me to spend more time at home and less time in meetings.
Mr. Parish, I wish I had blogged earlier. I was at a Town Council Meeting, where I observed Mr. Malin giving you an agreeable pat on the shoulder, as though you were great buddies.
I also spoke with a previous Council member who advised me they tried to get COSCO to be the anchor, but COSCO advised them that there were not properly approached to discussed the possibility of being the ANCHOR store. Their employee/employer practices are quality as opposed to WAL-MART lack of decent employee/employer pracices
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